Re: towards a sense of conglomerate consciousness

From: "David Mathes" <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 22:07:57 +0000

Dear all,

When I read some posts on why things happened or people had a certain energy or
personality, or why someone was abused, seems we sometimes say A caused B.

But what caused A?

I think one reason I stopped practising Constellations is that I had difficulty
understanding Conglomerate Consciousness in the Constellation space.

If we believe in destiny, in a system, that things are never random, then there
is some reason or link between people who hurt each other.

The system is vast. And Conglomerate Consciousness has been evolving since we
left singularity when the first elements/ consciousness formed, and these are
possibly our first ancestors.

Have others explored this in the Constellation space, to help understand how we
are propelled today?

Have a nice day/evening!

david

www.amita-institute.com
David Mathes

-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 8 Jul 2013 13:41:05
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Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Digest Number 2312

Constellation Talk



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4 New Messages

Digest #2312



1a

           Re: New genders
        by "Steve Vinay Gunther" nrgigestalt

1b

           Re: New genders
        by "Eimear O'Neill"

1c

           Re: New genders
        by "Michael Reddy" michaeljreddy

1d

           Re: New genders
        by "Heather Embree"


Messages

1a



        Re: New genders

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/9790;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODNqdXE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzk3OTAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI5MDg2NQ-->



Sun Jul 7, 2013 6:23 am (PDT) . Posted by:


        "Steve Vinay Gunther"         nrgigestalt
         <mailto:spirited@xxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Re%3A%20New%20genders>

As the son of a ts person (my father), I have pondered this a great deal. None
of the constellations I have done regarding my father have revealed anything
specific about the origins of his 'gender dysphoria', but then, that wasn't
what I was trying to explore in them.

Whatever mandatory 'counselling' is required for people considering a
gender transition tends to be quite shallow, with no systemic orientation at
all. And the whole transition process is conducted by the medical profession as
if its just one person going through the transition, where of course its
actually a whole family, a circle of friends, and often a workplace where that
person resides. This lack of a systemic sensitivity or interest is very
damaging for the whole system, and everyone involved, and usually results in
the fragmentation of relationships.

That aside, its true that our constellation work is very much grounded in the
biological facts. And in this case, my father is and always will be my father.
It was his maleness that I came out of.

So the first constellation I did on the subject of his transition was
culminated by a beautiful line which Pytor and Otteline gave me: 'You are my
father, and you will always be my father, and I bow before your fate'. I still
remember that line on a regular basis. Its kind of like honouring order and
weight, while giving precedence to new systems.

And the social context for transsexuals is very difficult - they basically
have to choose a binary because thats how our world operates. But in fact, they
are not really someone of the opposite gender, no matter how much they may
identify with that. They are, in my opinion, a transsexual, something which
involves a unique holding of the two polarities. Without space to do that, and
perhaps even find some kind of integration, the only option seems to be a
split: 'I was a man, now I am a woman'. Thats certainly the path my father
chose, and now considers his male self to be another person, separate from her
current identity. She literally cut that part of herself off.

As a son, of course, I want him/her to hold both truths. But its too much, and
its up to me to hold both those truths. I am in contact with many children of
ts' and they all have similar struggles.

If you are interested, you can read an article I wrote more than a decade ago
for the Australian:

http://www.australianhumanitiesreview.org/archive/Issue-August-1997/gunther.html

I get a letter every few weeks from a child of a ts who has read it, and
reaches out for support - theres not many resources out there.

Well, this is a fascinating topic, and I am interested to see where else the
discussion might lead

Vinay

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1b



        Re: New genders

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Sun Jul 7, 2013 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:


        "Eimear O'Neill"
         <mailto:eimear@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Re%3A%20New%20genders>

Your words reach me Steve. I so appreciate the depth and the heart in your
understandings of systems.

Does that mean I will follow your understanding blindly for the rest of my
life? No. What feels good is that you welcome response. It is not from on high.

I do not do Hellingerisms, Freudian slips, or Holy Father anything' any longer
without my Holy Mother, Cosmic Life-giver, and Star Origins. Radical
inclusivity means this is beyond human gender and sexualities as we have
currently decided they are constructed! This is also both/and fully rooted and
told in our bodies, in our biological realities as they unfold in relationship
with others, with all our relations. Women bear human life, men seed it.
Selecting which sperm are taken into the ovum arises at the membrane of the
ovum as far as we have some understanding of these things. We will get to know
more about that.

Transformative understandings become deeper and more interesting, ever more
truly erotic and life-celebrating, as it goes on becoming ever more inclusive
and recursive.Those on Constellation Talk know that we deal with in
constellations work is more than about humans' current ways of handing emerging
genders and sexualities. The wave of transformation in human conscious that we
are presently riding, is a rogue wave. Tumultous. Rapid and disruptive at
multiple deep levels in our functioning together as a species on one planet.
This goes beyond any human binary ways of talking about women or men as if they
were "the opposite gender" rather than the "other gender". This feeds into our
future, into our vision of care-taking together, of care-giving, peace-keeping,
peace-building, knowledge and education, visionary leadership and connection to
larger Spirit together. Then we are then more in our healing roles, more fully
sharing this planet as one earthed community. Dynamic, co-creating... and in it
for the long haul....... doing what Joanna Macy calls "acting our age" at 67
billion years old.

We need to keep a loving gaze on those patriarchal loyalties that hold men and
women in thrall to cultural norms and fragmented in their emerging selves, to
free them further from spiritual , political, tribal or corporate empires bent
on exclusionary principles or the principle of extermination of the other. This
is killing our very survival in diversity. Primarily these are a small tiny
number of humans from many peoples whose intention is to serve human profit no
matter the cost to the peoples, species, or living forms destroyed in doing
that. Constellations work is in transformation. Let us put loving intention
into working together lovingly, each from our own places within the wave... all
emergent selves moving into other ways of being together. It is following life
to do so.
With appreciation for all in the web of life,
Eimear

On 2013-07-07, at 9:23 AM, Steve Vinay Gunther wrote:

As the son of a ts person (my father), I have pondered this a great deal.
None of the constellations I have done regarding my father have revealed
anything specific about the origins of his 'gender dysphoria', but then,
that wasn't what I was trying to explore in them.

Whatever mandatory 'counselling' is required for people considering a
gender transition tends to be quite shallow, with no systemic orientation at
all. And the whole transition process is conducted by the medical profession
as if its just one person going through the transition, where of course its
actually a whole family, a circle of friends, and often a workplace where
that person resides. This lack of a systemic sensitivity or interest is very
damaging for the whole system, and everyone involved, and usually results in
the fragmentation of relationships.

That aside, its true that our constellation work is very much grounded in
the biological facts. And in this case, my father is and always will be my
father. It was his maleness that I came out of.

So the first constellation I did on the subject of his transition was
culminated by a beautiful line which Pytor and Otteline gave me: 'You are my
father, and you will always be my father, and I bow before your fate'. I
still remember that line on a regular basis. Its kind of like honouring
order and weight, while giving precedence to new systems.

And the social context for transsexuals is very difficult - they basically
have to choose a binary because thats how our world operates. But in fact,
they are not really someone of the opposite gender, no matter how much they
may identify with that. They are, in my opinion, a transsexual, something
which involves a unique holding of the two polarities. Without space to do
that, and perhaps even find some kind of integration, the only option seems
to be a split: 'I was a man, now I am a woman'. Thats certainly the path my
father chose, and now considers his male self to be another person, separate
from her current identity. She literally cut that part of herself off.

As a son, of course, I want him/her to hold both truths. But its too much,
and its up to me to hold both those truths. I am in contact with many
children of ts' and they all have similar struggles.

If you are interested, you can read an article I wrote more than a decade
ago for the Australian:
http://www.australianhumanitiesreview.org/archive/Issue-August-1997/gunther.html

I get a letter every few weeks from a child of a ts who has read it, and
reaches out for support - theres not many resources out there.

Well, this is a fascinating topic, and I am interested to see where else the
discussion might leadâ

Vinay

Eimear O'Neill PhD

Website;

http://www.eimearoneill.com

University Afiliation
http://www.oise.utoronto.ca/tlc/

Community Groups
Spirit Matters Community, Rekindling Spirit You Tube, Wildflowers Collective,
A Spoonful of Honey Intergenerational Storytelling Circles

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1c



        Re: New genders

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Sun Jul 7, 2013 12:54 pm (PDT) . Posted by:


        "Michael Reddy"         michaeljreddy
         <mailto:michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Re%3A%20New%20genders>

Hi All,

Thanks again Leslie and others for another important and fascinating thread.
Time constraints keep me from keeping up with Ctalk as much as I was able to
previously, so I've hesitated to respond of late. I hesitate also to write
this, because it opens a large and complex subject, about which it would take
much care and space to speak carefully--but feel compelled to write regardless.

There was a decade the late eighties and nineties, in the earlier part of my
public shamanic practice in New York City when I was involved with many LGBT
people. This means "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender," to those who may
perhaps not be familiar with the acronym. The thoughts I quickly ouline here
come from that exprerence, as well as careful reading of three landmark books,
which I strongly recommend to anyone with interest in this subject.
Spirit and the Flesh: Sexual Diversity in American Indian Culture by Walter L.
Williams (Apr 1, 1992)

Blossom of Bone - Reclaiming the Connections Between Homoeroticism and the
Sacred by Randy P. Conner (Nov 1993)

Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women by Anne Moir and David
Jessel (Aug 1, 1992)

The first two books make it clear that the status of gay or cross-gendered
people in most (not all) indigenous, and many other cultures worldwide, before
the onslaught of patriarchal and Judeo-Christian thinking--was relatively high.
They were consdered

touched by Spirit,
meant to be the glue that held those more polarized in regard to sex and
gender together,
held high positions in family life,
and often became healers, ministers, shamans. (can't say "priest" or
"priestess" here)

In the Americas, these sacred types of people were annihlated by largely
Christian explorers as abominations so early on (see Williams, above)--to the
point where little remains of their presence in the world. Vinay pointed out
correcly I believe that our current culture forces us to "choose a binary
because that's how [it believes] the world operates," and that crossgendered
people are in fact a "unique holding of the two polarities." In Lakota, the
language of the American Sioux, such people are called "winkte," which means
"twin souls." Those with both genders. They are a form of "heyoka," which means
those who tend towards the sacred opposites, in order to keep the culture of
the tribes from becoming too one-sided.

The third book, Brain Sex, argues with scientific support which seems to have
sustained itself over the years that gender and sexual preference are separate
spectra, heavily influenced by the flow of hormones in the mother's womb. This
suggests that, while some gender or sexual "disphoria" may be related to
personal or ancestral trauma, some of it may also be also simple biology and
not necessarily, as Dan says, "just a loyalty to someone of the opposite gender
from the past." Or sometimes it may be both, if we think of epigenetics. In any
case, some gender or sexual preference issues may want to resolve with healing,
but I think many do not need any resolving--they are the way the person is
supposed to be. It is society that needs the resolving.

Our very language, in contrast to indigenous cultures, embodies polarized
distinctions in this area. To say, "oh, well it's a woman in a man's body" got
(and still gets) involved in too many confusing arguments. I started to use
(and still use) other ways of speaking when I have to talk about people in this
regard. So, with the fact that gender is a always on a spectrum, not an
either/or thing, always in mind--I speak of "persons in male bodies whose
energies are strongly Yin," and "persons in female bodies whose energies are
strongly Yang." Those energies may express in any number of characteristic
ways. We'll sort that out carefully and separately.

I don't have time to document this now, but I believe the Original Kinsey
Report in the US also found that most people were not absotely polarized about
sexual preference, but rather existed on a spectrum with most clustered around
either end.

In fact, I believe it is true that even the reproductive biology of the human
form natureally produces a certain number of physical hermaphordites. We never
hear of or experience such people because they medical system tells parents
they need to be "fixed"--or else grow up as freaks.

The term we used to use for our society and our behavior is that it was
"gender bent." It was pushed by social norms towards either/or extremes that
made it difficult to be anything in between. So, we too, all of us--are
"genderbent" by it. And yet, if there are two distinct and independent
spectra, one of gender and one of sexual preference, then we have in our midst
people who are:
NOT AT HOME IN THE GENDER of the body they inhabit (more or less) while being
at the same time physically gay, or bi, or straight (more or less);
and people who ARE PEACEFULLY AT HOME IN THE GENDER OF THE BODY THEY INHABIT
(more or less) while being at the same time physically gay, or bi, or straight
(more or less).
This is a vast range of different energy combinations that has been suppressed
and thus gone largely ignored in our societies.

What does this mean for constellation work? I can't say I've really sorted out
the dissonance here between the strongly polarized way I received the
constellation perspective and these other studies and experiences. I think the
biological aspects of paternity and maternity are what is mostly focused on in
the strong distinction between fathers and mothers in the way we we are told to
handle "men" and "women" in constellations. But then I haven't had the blessing
(and probably never will) of sitting in a circle with a person who is
biologically capable of performing both roles. And yet it seems like such
beings might possibly have existed, or be able to exist today, if not
eradicated shortly after birth.

In terms of who in a constellation workshop is allowed to stand with the women
and who with the men, I hold to a certain openness about that. Here is a link
to an NYT article about a young child who identifies as female even though in a
male body. The US courts decided that it was discrimination to keep this child
from using the girls bathrooms in the school.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/us/agency-says-district-discriminated-against-transgender-student.html?hp

Here's what the court's ruling said: "evolving research on transgender
development showed that 'compartmentalizing a child as a boy or a girl solely
based on their visible anatomy, is a simplistic approach to a difficult and
complex issue'."

Such a person should not be forced to butcher the body in order to conform to
skewed societal norms. If someone that strongly to the Yin side of the gender
spectrum were to show up in a constellation workshop, I would probably be moved
(or even told by the Knowing Field) to let her/him stand with the women. At the
same time, I would be faced with a different, social dilemma in making that
choice. If it freaked out my client in the constellation because the client and
most people in the circle were "genderbent," I might set up three kinds of
people: the men, the women, and the twin souls.

Perhaps that's a possible solution for some of us constellators, to follow the
indigenous peoples, and say, "well, there is a middle type here, neither
strictly man nor strictly woman." And to acknowledge that that middle type is
ancient and sacred and important as well.

I'm sorry for the length here, and for having to touch on many hard to
articulate subjects so quickly. Perhaps others will want to expand on this
subject on this forum. At the same time, I think these issues need to be opened
up much more deeply among us.

Sincerely,
Michael

Michael Reddy, PhD, CPC, ELI-MP
michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:michael%40reddyworks.com>  610 469 7588
www.reddyworks.com
Relieving Chronic Emotional/Physical Suffering using
Family Constellations | Core Energy Coaching | EFT | Shamanism

On Jul 2, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Leslie Nipps wrote:

This topic brings up something I have been thinking about quite a bit
lately. In the Bay Area and around the world, there has been an explosion of
new experiences of gender. The phenomenon is nothing new, but its growth
lately, with the decrease of stigma and the increase of new role models, is
striking. I usually run my constellation events in an intentionally blind
format, so we don't assign roles by gender (a necessity anyway, since my
attendees are preponderantly female), but on rare occasions, assigning by
gender seems important to the client's outcome. On one of these nights, one
of my occasional attendees who is, I think, female-to-male transgender, but
who generally goes without a specific gender designation, was insulted and
felt very excluded by his inability to join in the gender-specific roles.

I still feel clear that what I did was in service to the client. However, it
does raise the question of how we view all this in constellation work, where
the role of male and female is so very central to the paradigm. How do we 1)
include alternatively-gendered clients, and 2) understand the role of
non-female and -male genders respectfully in the system? Right now I have a
spiritual directee who considers himself gender-queer, and I can only
imagine the critique he would have of the way we tend to assume the place of
males and females in our systemic thinking.

I have some thoughts on this myself, but I am really, really curious about
how members of this group are thinking about this emergence in our cultures.

I'm excited about what you will say!

Peace, Leslie

The Rev. Leslie Nipps, NLP & Family Constellations Practitioner

"Trust as a Way of Life..."

<http://www.leslienipps.com> www.leslienipps.com

<mailto:leslie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:leslie%40leslienipps.com> >
leslie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:leslie%40leslienipps.com>

_____

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Heather Embree
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:24 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Divine Feminine: What Does She Want?

Thank you so much for stating this, Dan. It is true on many levels and yet
I wonder why the divine tries to express itself through male/female physical
forms. There is something about active/receptive and the unique wisdoms
that both experiences allow. The two-spirited people or those who have an
androgynous balance within, are considered to be highly evolved beings.
Mastery of both in awareness and consciousness, allows loving accepting of
all parts in a balanced, healthy way. This is why I love the movement of
transgendered peoples, bisexuality and queer lifestyles. The courage to
break out of the box and be oneself in all the ways of loving while in the
face of societal backlashes is a remarkable and beautiful act of Higher
Love. Yet, even within those communities, historically many stopped the
evolutionary flow by just identifying and acting out of pure sexuality,
which ultimately was necessary for self-exploration, and instead
self-destructed rather than embracing the full potential for great,
universal love.

May we support all of us to find the balance of the masculine/feminine
energies within to allow for greater loving consciousness.

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dan Booth Cohen,
PhD
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 10:48 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Divine Feminine: What Does She Want?

Dear Anni and others -

In one sense, there is no masculine or feminine. For the interactions of
energy and matter in quantum space-time, masculine and feminine are
meaningless.

In one sense, the definitions of masculine and feminine are cultural
constructs. Naming God the Father, may tell us nothing about the truth of
God or fathers, but it does exert tremendous influence in the lives of
nearly every human, certainly all of us who speak and read English.

In one sense, masculine and feminine are physiologically determined. Men
have two tongues. Women have two mouths. Every human grows from a father's
seed and mother's egg in the womb.

There are some qualities of masculine and feminine that are meaningless,
some that are cultural constructs and some that are physical facts. I have
complex relationships with many women. I sometimes struggle to be mediate
between spirit, soul and body. Some relationships fail, some endure, some
become electric.

Thomas Bryson has written about human consciousness as having multiple
aspects like the ocean, the wave, and the water drop. Constellations expand
our awareness beyond the perspective of the drop. We can feel the pull of
the rise and fall of the wave we call the family system. Some Constellations
go beyond the drop and the wave. The ocean speaks to us directly: "I am
water. Feel me loving every part of you - there is no part that I do not
love!"

Dan

Dan Booth Cohen, PhD

2013 US Systemic Constellations Conference, October 10-13, Seattle, WA
<http://constellateus.com/conference2013/>

6th North American Systemic Constellations Intensive, July 31 - August 4,
2013, Farmington, CT <http://constellateus.com/intensive2013/>

<http://www.hiddensolution.com/> www.HiddenSolution.com

781-718-7158

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of anni
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:17 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Shiva, Kali, Divine Feminine, Destroyer of
the Worlds

Hello to all, The conversations here are so enriching. I want to add to the
thought Carolyn had when she wrote:

"This image of the divine couple certainly gives us a different view than
that of the Male War God and Subservient Sinful Woman stripped of her own
divinity. This image of the divine, and other Goddess images, challenge the
polarized assignments of attributes that are currently considered to be
"naturally" masculine or feminine. Such examination might even challenge
some of the "truths" we see in the field."

Yes, I do agree that whatever our learnings, they have the capacity to
influence the "truth" of what we see and do not see. It is not only images
but other blindnesses we have from language and culture that make our way of
seeing so difficult to shift. Here as we speak of feminine and masculine we
have been in most of this discussion in a masculine based culture where
power and status are aligned with what we see as masculine qualities. My own
culture of the Saami people historically was quite different although the
colonization by European religious and cultural attitudes has nearly
obliterated even references to the role of the feminine in that culture.
From what I can glean, women of this indigenous culture were not only equals
in hunting and politics but in spirituality the feminine appears to have the
highest of places. Being an Arctic culture, the sun is the most important
deity and this is a female goddess. The feminine comprises many of the
qualities we see many times in other cultures as male qualities. So is this
a truth?

I am currently reading a novel in which the author describes the ancient
Saami virgin not as a chaste woman but rather a woman who is sexually active
but has no man to which she answers. She is not married.

Why am I giving this information? Primarily, the truth as Carolyn suggests
is coloured by our experience and the myths to which we give credence. Truth
is an evasive quality. As facilitators, we are called to observe. At which
point when we speak are we being true to truth or only to the truth we
believe we know.

Working with First Nations indigenous individuals in Canada, I have observed
an order in some families that is different than the order we frequently see
in families of European descent. Are the orders a truth or a truth for that
cultural system?

Can we say with clarity what is feminine or masculine? Are these inherent
truths or socially accepted systemic manifestations?

Have a lovely weekend, Anni

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        Re: New genders

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk/message/9793;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZjc1a3ZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkwMDgyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjE1BG1zZ0lkAzk3OTMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI5MDg2NQ-->



Sun Jul 7, 2013 7:30 pm (PDT) . Posted by:


        "Heather Embree"
         <mailto:heather@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Re%3A%20New%20genders>

Thank you so much for openly sharing your experiences, Steve, as it speaks so
much the impact that sexuality/identity/inner being feelings has within the
greater community to help us get a deeper understanding of all of the pieces
that are missing within society, as well as within Constellations around this
topic.

Your understanding of the polarities even within the medical approach to
transgendered issues is an important one to note. I

believe there are many people who can relate feeling like they are a different
gender than what one was born as. I can, absolutely, relate on this level and
Iâm not sure if itâs from the way society views a girl/woman, meaning that
Iâm supposed to want children, wear pretty things and not cross the boundary
of hanging out only with guys, believing that it must mean that Iâm sexually
flirting with them or interested in them for something more instead of the
reality that I prefer just hanging out with guys more so than hanging out with
ultra-femme women who only talked about kids and shopping and other things that
make my eyes glaze over.

So all of this to say that I believe this feeling that precedes the operation
is something that many of us have within us â the yin/yang, social
expectations and perceptions, hormonal issues, etc. However, many do not
discuss this feeling in terms of being transgendered or transsexual, yet itâs
actually internally much more common and normal within many of us. Itâs the
brave person to actually decide to physically make the changes in order to feel
comfortable in his/her own skin that allows each of us to grow in the courage
to truly be oneself or to want to interact in the world in a way that matches
oneâs internal feelings.

Yet, in the community, it definitely can shift relationships in a drastic way,
and finding ways to integrate the person transitioning and all relationships to
come to inclusiveness and acceptance on all levels is important for full love
to flow.

Warmest regards,

Heather

From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Eimear O'Neill
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 1:27 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: New genders

Your words reach me Steve. I so appreciate the depth and the heart in your
understandings of systems.

Does that mean I will follow your understanding blindly for the rest of my
life? No. What feels good is that you welcome response. It is not from on high.

I do not do Hellingerisms, Freudian slips, or Holy Father anything' any longer
without my Holy Mother, Cosmic Life-giver, and Star Origins. Radical
inclusivity means this is beyond human gender and sexualities as we have
currently decided they are constructed! This is also both/and fully rooted and
told in our bodies, in our biological realities as they unfold in relationship
with others, with all our relations. Women bear human life, men seed it.
Selecting which sperm are taken into the ovum arises at the membrane of the
ovum as far as we have some understanding of these things. We will get to know
more about that.

Transformative understandings become deeper and more interesting, ever more
truly erotic and life-celebrating, as it goes on becoming ever more inclusive
and recursive.Those on Constellation Talk know that we deal with in
constellations work is more than about humans' current ways of handing emerging
genders and sexualities. The wave of transformation in human conscious that we
are presently riding, is a rogue wave. Tumultous. Rapid and disruptive at
multiple deep levels in our functioning together as a species on one planet.
This goes beyond any human binary ways of talking about women or men as if they
were "the opposite gender" rather than the "other gender". This feeds into our
future, into our vision of care-taking together, of care-giving, peace-keeping,
peace-building, knowledge and education, visionary leadership and connection to
larger Spirit together. Then we are then more in our healing roles, more fully
sharing this planet as one earthed community. Dynamic, co-creating... and in it
for the long haul....... doing what Joanna Macy calls "acting our age" at 67
billion years old.

We need to keep a loving gaze on those patriarchal loyalties that hold men and
women in thrall to cultural norms and fragmented in their emerging selves, to
free them further from spiritual , political, tribal or corporate empires bent
on exclusionary principles or the principle of extermination of the other. This
is killing our very survival in diversity. Primarily these are a small tiny
number of humans from many peoples whose intention is to serve human profit no
matter the cost to the peoples, species, or living forms destroyed in doing
that. Constellations work is in transformation. Let us put loving intention
into working together lovingly, each from our own places within the wave... all
emergent selves moving into other ways of being together. It is following life
to do so.
With appreciation for all in the web of life,
Eimear

On 2013-07-07, at 9:23 AM, Steve Vinay Gunther wrote:

As the son of a ts person (my father), I have pondered this a great deal.
None of the constellations I have done regarding my father have revealed
anything specific about the origins of his 'gender dysphoria', but then,
that wasn't what I was trying to explore in them.

Whatever mandatory 'counselling' is required for people considering a
gender transition tends to be quite shallow, with no systemic orientation at
all. And the whole transition process is conducted by the medical profession
as if its just one person going through the transition, where of course its
actually a whole family, a circle of friends, and often a workplace where
that person resides. This lack of a systemic sensitivity or interest is very
damaging for the whole system, and everyone involved, and usually results in
the fragmentation of relationships.

That aside, its true that our constellation work is very much grounded in
the biological facts. And in this case, my father is and always will be my
father. It was his maleness that I came out of.

So the first constellation I did on the subject of his transition was
culminated by a beautiful line which Pytor and Otteline gave me: 'You are my
father, and you will always be my father, and I bow before your fate'. I
still remember that line on a regular basis. Its kind of like honouring
order and weight, while giving precedence to new systems.

And the social context for transsexuals is very difficult - they basically
have to choose a binary because thats how our world operates. But in fact,
they are not really someone of the opposite gender, no matter how much they
may identify with that. They are, in my opinion, a transsexual, something
which involves a unique holding of the two polarities. Without space to do
that, and perhaps even find some kind of integration, the only option seems
to be a split: 'I was a man, now I am a woman'. Thats certainly the path my
father chose, and now considers his male self to be another person, separate
from her current identity. She literally cut that part of herself off.

As a son, of course, I want him/her to hold both truths. But its too much,
and its up to me to hold both those truths. I am in contact with many
children of ts' and they all have similar struggles.

If you are interested, you can read an article I wrote more than a decade
ago for the Australian:
http://www.australianhumanitiesreview.org/archive/Issue-August-1997/gunther.html

I get a letter every few weeks from a child of a ts who has read it, and
reaches out for support - theres not many resources out there.

Well, this is a fascinating topic, and I am interested to see where else the
discussion might leadâ

Vinay

Follow-Ups:
- Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: towards a sense of conglomerate consciousness
  - From: Robert Grant
- Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: towards a sense of conglomerate consciousness
  - From: Kay Needham

Re: towards a sense of conglomerate consciousness

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