Hi, I think an important message is to communicate that there is growing support for the approach, and that is clearly conveyed by Todd's table. I would agree with deleting vendors with no check marks; it is implicit that if a vendor is missing, it is not currently working with the library. It may spur more to join us on-board. But I do think Todd is doing the right thing by showing there is support here. Otherwise we have a pretty empty message for model makers/consumers. Ken -----Original Message----- From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Ross Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:12 PM To: twesterh@xxxxxxxxx Cc: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Epiphany Todd: The presentation content (especially with vendor names needs to be clear. While your intent seems reasonable, it is more important to be absolutely clear and non-judgemental regarding and vendor name. Verbal clarification is insufficient for published material. Without clarification, the blank leaves a negative connotation for those vendors listed. That is why you should either clarify, remove the names, disquise the names, (vendor 1, vendor 2), or add the substitution checks as a reasonalbe alternative. This is the issue. Be careful what you say when you list vendor names. Or remove that slide entirely. Bob Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) wrote: > The question of "what do we do for the vendors where everything is > blank?" is EXACTLY what I want the viewer to ask. There are two > questions that should arise from the slide: > > 1) If we pick Verilog-A, what about the VHDL-AMS only vendors? > 2) No matter what we pick, what about vendors without -A or -AMS > support? > > Remember the slide appears before we introduce the macro approach, as > part of the description of the problem. I'm suggesting that our > approach to multiple language support arises in response to the > natural questions posed by slide 4. > > I'll change the slide if the group wants, but I actually think it's > simpler and more straightforward this way ("this is the problem we > were up against"). The other thing that deleting the substitution > column did was eliminate the issue of whether we were declaring > vendor's future plans or not. The slide simply shows current tool > language support as represented by the vendors. > > Comments are welcome and appreciated. > > Todd. > > Todd Westerhoff > High Speed Design Group Manager > Cisco Systems > 1414 Massachusetts Ave > Boxboro, MA 01719 > email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx > ph: 978-936-2149 > ____________________________________________ > "Always do right. > This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." > > - Mark Twain > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:04 PM > To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Epiphany > > I tend to agree with Bob's opinion that something should be mentioned > about substitution on that chart. > It looks empty this way begging the question why those vendors/tools > are listed then... > > Arpad > ====================================================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Ross > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:01 AM > To: twesterh@xxxxxxxxx > Cc: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Epiphany > > Todd: > > Details - should put your name as author since this will be stored as > westerhoff.pdf, etc. > > Looks OK, but not clear why two vendors are listed with no checks. > need some footnote or explaination that they would probably use a > SPICE mapping solution (substitution), but still could be supported. > > Slide 11 - ok, but could correct the syntax in the boxes, but not > critical. > > Bob > > Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) wrote: > > >>Take a look at slide 4. >> >>It occurred to me that the vendor / tool / language matrix was better >>suited to describing why we picked the approach we did. As such, I've > > >>removed the "substitution" column and moved it forward in the > > presentation. > >> >>- It now explains why we picked Verilog-A as our initial >>implementation language (most tool support) >>- It also explains why we needed VHDL-AMS support (key vendor support) >>- Adding Sigrity and Apsim shows why we needed a substitution scheme >>and, by extension, adherence to basic SPICE element types >> >>Comments are welcome and appreciated. >> >>Todd. >> >>Todd Westerhoff >>High Speed Design Group Manager >>Cisco Systems >>1414 Massachusetts Ave >>Boxboro, MA 01719 >>email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx >>ph: 978-936-2149 >>____________________________________________ >>"Always do right. >> This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." >> >>- Mark Twain >> > > > -- > Bob Ross > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs > 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane > Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 > 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 > http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct > bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group > LLC > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > IBIS Macro website: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-macro IBIS Macro > archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/ibis-macro > To unsubscribe send an email: > To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: unsubscribe > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > IBIS Macro website: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-macro IBIS Macro > archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/ibis-macro > To unsubscribe send an email: > To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: unsubscribe > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > IBIS Macro website: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-macro IBIS Macro > archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/ibis-macro > To unsubscribe send an email: > To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: unsubscribe > -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC --------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS Macro website: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-macro IBIS Macro archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/ibis-macro To unsubscribe send an email: To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: unsubscribe --------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS Macro website: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-macro IBIS Macro archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/ibis-macro To unsubscribe send an email: To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: unsubscribe