[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 11 Dec 2012 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:18:44 -0500
Minutes from the 11 Dec 2012 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 11 Dec 2012
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: * Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Raghat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- Arpad: There is one more meeting this year, Dec 18
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Walter update BIRD 150
- Walter updated it and will send soon
- Walter define Usage of dependency table parameters
- Fangyi, Mahbubul, et. al., to discuss merging their "Redriver" proposal with
BIRD 131.
- Fangyi: Trying to schedule Maxim partners on this
-------------
New Discussion:
Interconnect report:
- Michael M: Meeting held last week
- Steve Pytel from ANSYS presented
- Si2 may be able to disclose spec details in February
- May have something for DesignCON summit
Fangyi showed "New API to Resolve Dependent Model ...":
- 2
- Fangyi: Vendors may want to hide dependency formulas from users
- A new API can handle this
- 3
- Fangyi described the AMI_ResolveDependentParam() function
- 4
- Fangyi described the flow steps to use the new function
- Tools are expected to use malloc/calloc to allocate memory
- David: It is not good to separate allocate and free
- Mike: AMI_Close() does the freeing
- Fangyi: We would need a separate function
- This is called before AMI_Init()
- David: We should discuss the idea of this affecting the analog model
- Radek: If the DLL allocates the memory then AMI_Close can free it
- 5
- Fangyi listed benefits of the new approach
- Ambrish: How do we know which are for the analog model and which for AMI?
- Arpad: Is the input an exact copy of the AMI_Init() input?
- Fangyi: Yes
- David: Why not include this in AMI_Init?
- Fangyi: Because the analog parameters may change
- Radek: The impulse response can not be determined until this is resolved
- Arpad: BIRD 116 is related, parameterization of ISS subckts
- David: Did that pass?
- Arpad: No
- Fangyi: If there are no analog Model_Specific parameters it could be handled
without exposing anything
- Arpad: If the output of the Resolve function goes to Init the params must be
InOuts
- Unless we make an exception
- Fangyi: If a param goes through Resolve it should not be Out
- Init should not change it the second time
- Bob: There are Info Reserved_Parameters that affect the DLL
- Arpad: They are not passed to the DLL
- Bob: The last slide should be included in the BIRD
- Fangyi: About Radek's idea, the memory would have to be passed to Init
- The model has not been allocated when Resolve is used
- Ambrish: How does this help with analog parameters?
- Walter: In a large number of AMI models, param settings affect impedance
- Strength settings choose TOUCHSTONE files, for example
- David: We decided to let users choose by [Model Selector]
- Walter: IC vendors prefer to set registers and have those affect analog
settings
- David: We are leaning toward using [Model Selector]
- Walter: That is OK for a simple TX with few settings
- We see models with 128 settings
- David: Does this also include non-analog settings like tap weights?
- Walter: We have seen a model with 256,000 different settings including C_comp
- MM: We see cases where analog model and AMI file are contradictory
- What if it was pointed to from the pin list?
- Some people are not clear about how much analog should be in the DLL
- David: This seems like a headache for tool vendors
- Walter: A TOUCHSTONE file is always required for analog models
- The IBIS analog section doesn't solve the problem
- Ambrish: We need to keep analog and AMI models separate
- Walter: BIRD 116 assumes drivers in high or low state
- SerDes models are not in those states
- Ambrish: That problem should be solved first
- Walter: BIRD 122 addresses it
- The Wed meetings are discussing this
- David: We see good results with stock IBIS analog
- Arpad: The BIRD 122 circuit can be done with legacy IBIS
- Walter: We do not have TOUCHSTONE
- Ambrish: We can add that
- Walter: That falls apart with redrivers
- SerDes drivers have many states
- Ambrish: It sounds like dependency should be moved outside of AMI
- SPICE can handle it
- Arpad: Walter's proposal is equivalent to BIRD 116
- Walter: That requires wrappers and D-A/A-D converters
Michael M: When will we discuss repeaters?
- These are tied to backchannel proposals
- Arpad: Dependencies make it hard to schedule topics
- Repeaters and backchannel have dependencies on each other
- Walter: Specifications like 802.3bj need to tell us how to do training
Arpad: We will table discussion of BIRD 150 and Fangyi's proposal for now
Fangyi noted that his proposal does not have to apply to analog parameters
AR: Walter send BIRD 150.1 draft 7 to list
AR: Mike post BIRD 150.1 draft 7 to web
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Next meeting: 11 Dec 2012 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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