[ibis-macro] Re: input to Tx analog model
- From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 09:11:41 -0800
Walter,
Thanks for the reminder about the ATM summary presentation.
I will put together a few slides on that... We can set some
time aside for the BIRD you want to talk about (124), but I
would also like to make some progress on the analog modeling
BIRD discussion. We had a lot of talk on this topic but I
still don't have a cozy feeling on what the spec should say...
An overview of our Task List is also due, because we still
have a few items to address, but we can probably do this
in conjunction of the ATM report presentation discussion.
Thanks,
Arpad
==============================================================
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 9:46 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: input to Tx analog model
Arpad,
You can connect the output of Tx AMI_GetWave on the High (Positive side of the
network and 0 on the Low (Negative side) or ½ of Tx AMI_GetWave on the High
(Positive side of the network and -½ of Tx AMI_GetWave on the Low (Negative
side). At the Rx analog output one uses the differential output. All in between
is LTI so the answer is the same. AMI does not currently support common mode
affects.
Tuesday will be the last meeting of IBIS-ATM. I would suggest that we spend a
little time on a summary that you would give at the Summit. Secondly, I would
like a little time (~15 minutes) to go over BIRD-123, the Dependency BIRD.
Walter
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:54 PM
To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: input to Tx analog model
I got stuck in my thinking on one detail question:
If the Tx GetWave output is a difference waveform but
the analog Tx model has a differential in/out (4-port),
how do we convert the difference waveform coming from
Tx GetWave into a differential waveform for the Tx
analog model?
Since the input to Tx GetWave is +/- 0.5 volt, centered
around 0, it would be tempting to say, let's just make
a copy of the Tx GetWave output, multiplied by -1. But
this only works if the difference waveform from Tx GetWave
is guaranteed to be DC free. I am not sure if that is a
safe assumption.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Arpad
===========================================================
From: fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:33 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: input to Tx analog model
Arpad;
Yes, we are asking the same questions. While yours are more focusing on AMI
simulation, mine are focusing on general SPICE transient simulation. A subtitle
difference is that in AMI it's the EDA tool that internally create the input to
Tx analog models but in transient user has to create the input explicitly on
the schematic. So these questions are more prominent in transient simulations.
Regards,
Fangyi
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:16 PM
To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: input to Tx analog model
Fangyi,
You are basically asking the same question to which I was
trying to find the answer in the last few ATM meetings and
email discussions on the topic of the AMI analog models.
The difference you describe is exactly why I am now asking
the questions "what is ***the*** analog model" or AMI? Is
the stimulus PWL source included or not? Do we need two
different types of models? Do we need to describe the
different usages and/or flows... I still do not see the end
of the tunnel in this discussion.
I thought when Walter posted his HSPICE netlist
http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/archive/20101214/walterkatz/BIRD%20122%20Sample%20SPICE%20Deck/generic_tstonefile_spice.pdf
that we had the answer. But when Walter brought up the
possibility of using the output of Tx GetWave as the input
to the Tx analog model, I lost that feeling. I am still
looking for answers and suggestions on how to write the
specification in an unambiguous way to describe the analog
models.
I am open to any suggestions...
Thanks,
Arpad
============================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 9:11 PM
To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] input to Tx analog model
Hi, Experts,
In light of IBIS analog model enhancement discussed at recent ATM meetings, I
want to raise a question: in SPICE level transient simulations (w/o AMI), what
is the input signal to the Tx analog model?
In IBIS 5.0 the answer is simple. The input is digital signal whose threshold
crossing events trigger rise and fall edges being formed and transmitted. The
swing and waveform of the edges are part of the analog model. They are
independent of the input signal and user doesn't need to know about them.
If we are to make Tx analog model able to accept AMI_GetWave output waveform as
input, we need to abandon this notion of event trigger and make the input
signal a continuous analog waveform (e.g. PWL). The output waveform of Tx
analog model will be directly shaped by the input waveform. As a result, to run
a SPICE level transient simulation (w/o AMI) user has to look up the swing and
slope parameters (Voh, Vol, trise, etc) from model files in order to create the
input signal with proper amplitude and shape.
Is this an acceptable use model for transient? If user replace his old model
with a new one, then the result is most likely wrong because his old digital
input signal doesn't have the correct amplitude and slope.
Regards,
Fangyi
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