Flipping the rear frame back to normal, I can use 24 and 20in wheels to drop the pivot another 1-2deg. With 16in wheel is the rear frame touches the ground, so an 18in should be good for another degree or so, 1in ground clearance? What a hunch it is. I can confirm that the 26in & ~48deg is most unstable, too much PSI somehow, very light pedal (touchy), as if there is no pendulum effect like high/low pivot angles. Yes, I can ride this configuration now, are barely without the sticky seat pad made out of plastic grass, so the extra grip does help a lot, similar to 2-3 deg increase in pivot angle, 5-pt seatbelt? The 20in & ~45deg feels progressively better than 24in & ~47deg, with less PSI and more pedal control, so lower angles should improves until wheel flop or other factors becomes an issue, say 40-35deg? Next step is to remeasure all configurations again carefully, and plot seat rise vs. pivot angle for comparison with the calculation. Vi ________________________________ From: Rhisiart Gwilym <Rhisiart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 11:39:58 PM Subject: [python] Re: Cool handlebar for 48deg 20in [python] Re: Cool handlebar for 48deg 20in That's a fascinating vid, Vi. Seems equally rideable right through that range of pivot angles. The mystery deepens! Well, it does for me anyway. Despite all the heavy technical prowess on tap amongst the listees, it still seems to me that a lot of the time, you just get a hunch, try it, and see. Thanks for all the input. RhG Hi Dirk, > Just for you, I swapped out the rear wheels to vary pivot angles, from 26, 16, 12, to 6in to get 60-52deg. Surprise, they are all ridable. In fact the smaller wheels feel more stable than 26in. Seat height may have something to do with it, and possibly the wheels themselves. Here is video of the test ride. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JUg0zIHSuM