Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Constellations with Soul AND SpiritDear collegues
Bert Hellinger is very clear on this subject. He describes the transference
proces the way he sees it as follows:
The therapist places himself at the position of the parent of the client, and
even at the position of the 'better' parent. He does so by looking at the
client as a needy child instead of an adult. Or the client projects its parents
on the therapist who allows that to happen.
The way I see it is that transference is created by the therapist or allowed by
the therapist. The moment that I look at the client with respect for his
parents, family and their fate, the client becomes an adult again and stops the
tranference. Just try it!
I can't see how transference would help anyone. Because the adult client, as
everybody on the planet, has his own parents, and the only thing he needs is to
be reconciled with his parents and other familymembers, also the excluded ones.
This is the basis of the systemic work as we know it.
But the real work for us as therapists or facilitators only starts from there.
We have to work on our own attitude, emotions, thoughts, ideas and the
relationship with our own parents.
With that basic attunement within ourself, and then towards the client, we can
get into resonance with the field or soul of the client and listen to which
next step is needed.
There are many books and video's where Bert Hellinger explanes this proces in
detail. In the systemic bulletin - now known as the knowing field - number 4,
there is a great lecture of him on the art of helping.
I made a compilation of different articles and workshops that Hellinger gave on
the art of helping, but that book is only available in Dutch, so far. Jan Jacob
Stam and I gave a workshop on the aspects of systemic helping on the conference
in Cologne last year. There is so much to discover on systemic helping, it is
really exciting.
This simple way of working in tune with the soul and the intention not to judge
and be equal to all people keeps me busy every day of the rest of my life!
With love and kind reagards
Margreet Mossel
from the Netherlands
www.opstellingen.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Alison Rose Levy
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Constellations with Soul AND Spirit
Hey Tom and Group:
Tom, your comments about the "German Pope" and the many responses in reply
have raised some questions which I would love to hear our group members
comment upon:
Bert Hellinger claims that his philosophy/practice functions apart from
transference (conventionally recognized as key to therapeutic efficacy).
Yet as both Tom's question and the many answers to it reveal, Bert himself
is the object of extensive and varied transference.
(And by the way, I've heard endless debates of this type about Bert
forever.)
In these discussions, some will see him as the obnoxious authoritarian,
others as the beleaguered maverick.
Or he will be the benevolent healer, the professional wild card, the leader
to whom we are loyal, the elder to whom
we owe respect, the looney from whom we must distance ourselves, the
inconsiderate pater, the sacred shaman, or perhaps, the German Pope.
Some will probe to find out who he really is, while others loyally protect
him from the harsh glare of personalized inquiry. Or we might
keep these issues at bay, or claim it doesn't matter. We don't need to know
him. Father issues, anyone?
But my question is: Phenomenologically, in a methodology that claims to
function apart from transference, what is showing up?
Yes, guys, it's transference.
So my second question is: Wouldn't it be better to let this excluded
therapeutic forebear into the field and see how it feels?
And would doing that change our way of working? If so, how?
How would owning our own transferential dynamic with Hellinger as part of
our work on self change our relationship to Hellinger and to the teachings?
How it would it change our relationship to fellow practitioners if we
acknowledged that transferential dynamics occur in this community?
I'm sure many of you are already playing with this, and I'd love to hear
what you've found.
All the best,
Alison
Alison Rose Levy
The Stable LLC
123 Main Street
Irvington-on-Hudson, NY 10533
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@xxxxxxx>
To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 1:30 AM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Constellations with Soul AND Spirit
> Barbara,
>
> Thanks for your reply. I actually have seen part of a video of Bert
> in Santa Barbara from a few years ago. It would be great to do a
> workshop with him but that means going over to France or Germany
> since I hear he no longer travels to the USA.
>
> But if you want more thought-provoking statements, I'll ask this one
> as a proverb in Latin: "Quis custodet ipsos custodes?" ("Who will
> guard the guards themselves?") Explanation below.
>
> I appreciate what you say about taking any scuttlebut with many
> grains of salt; but there is a nagging question I have that concerns
> the attitude of separating out the personality of Bert from his work.
>
> What about Bert's own family system? Has he himself put himself
> through the same gauntlet of constellations that everyone else who
> becomes a facilitator must go though? And if so, does anyone know
> about the results?
>
> I can understand that such information would be used against him by
> his enemies, but on the other hand, facilitators not knowing about it
> puts Bert in the superior position of a father, and in his case a
> Holy Father because of the ritualistic, shamanic, and Catholic
> aspects of his work and being. That's why I joke about him as Pope
> Bert, knowing that I can tell more truth in jest than in serious
> talk. Are we to hold his family system as sacrosanct because it is
> one of the secrets that children must not ask their parents about?
>
> I really feel that he has, for whatever reason, placed himself above
> the rest of us who are drawn so deeply to pursue and extend his work.
> I've recently read through both _Love's Hidden Symmetry_ and
> _Acknowledging What Is_. With every page, my soul does cartwheels and
> raises a fist in the air and shouts YES! to the truth that I feel
> flows through every page in every answer to every question posed in
> those books.
>
> But then I wonder about the absolutism of his attitude, the
> infallible aura of his pronouncements, any my deep desire to believe
> such pronouncements. I have nothing against infallibility because the
> universe itself is infallible (at least the right-brain universe is,
> not the left). But we are all fallible in our perceptions and
> observations of that world and universe, and the fallibility is
> precisley in the realm of the mind soul where our ordinary left-brain
> intellectual consciousness must allow for its transcendence by the
> emotions or what I like to term "heart-thinking" that goes beyond the
> ordinary logic of our intellects.
>
> My fear is that however sincere and well-intentioned he is,
> nonetheless Bert Hellinger has set himself up as a Father-God figure
> to all those who are drawn to pursue his work. As a Catholic and now
> a Hellingrite, I feel like there's two German Popes now.
>
> As I read so many of his pronouncements about God and spirituality,
> etc., I keep wondering how much of this is his own personal
> projecting which might be revealed as such if we knew about the
> dynamics of his own personal family systemic order.
>
> Quis custodet ipsos custodes?
>
> Doubting Thomas
>
> (who doubts so much, he even doubts his own doubting.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
SPONSORED LINKS
Health and wellness
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=4arL1LcTJ8-W>
Health wellness product
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=Fq8b6pcr>
Health and wellness program <http:// ;
groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=765j>
Health promotion and wellness
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=aT>
Business health wellness
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=VCHykQ1>
Womens health and wellness &
lt;http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Business+health+wellness&w6=Womens+health+and+wellness&c=6&s=184&.sig=fRi4Z>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "ConstellationTalk
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConstellationTalk> " on the web.
b..
c.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
d.. ConstellationTalk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Unsubscribe>
e..
f.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "ConstellationTalk" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ConstellationTalk-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
