[ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
- From: D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 14:44:45 -0400
Hi George, this is true, and good advice. Without having drivers on hand,
nobody should do any kind of formatting or cleaning of the system.
I usually do direct to the chip vendor's website and get drivers from
there, as they are usually even more up to date than the OEm in certain
cases. For example, Intel's latest graphics drivers was released early this
year, while many OEm still have last year's posting for those systems with
Intel graphics. The same is true with other chip vendors such as broadcom
(network/wifi/card reader), Atheros (card network/wifi), realtek (network,
wifi, card reader, audio), NVIDIA (graphics) etc. And as George also
mentioned, downloading a working driver is always better than letting
windows update anything in terms of hardware. This is because allot of times
those drivers are older, or could cause system issues with the device,
because they are not properly installed.
That's why allot of times you see the issue George mentioned, network works
fine, but stops working after installing the windows update driver; in that
case, rolling back the driver is the better solution.
HTH, D!J!X!
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:23 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
I'm coming into this late, but one of the problems I have found with using a
plain, vanilla, Microsoft operating system disk, as opposed to one from the
hardware manufacturer is often lack of certain drivers.
The one golden rule I have always followed it to determine precisely what
network drivers are required, otherwise you may find yourself unable to
access the internet after installation. My own experience is that Hewlett
Packard systems are one of the worst for this. Windows appears to install
just fine, even to the point of updating, but re-boot, and internet access
can be lost until the correct drivers are installed.
Hence, before giving the system the big "Format c:", I always visit the
manufacturer's web site and download those drivers to a USB memory stick, CD
or DVD.
Once I have completed the clean install, in go the network drivers, and the
very next task is to check for updates, and again those specifically any
related to hardware. While this generally involves sighted help, I firmly
believe it safest to bring hardware drivers up to date before installing
speech or magnification. This usually avoids updating by anything other
than the hardware OEM's version, which again is safest.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: 14 March 2015 22:16
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
This is true Phil, as long as the disc is OEM, the product will activate
just fine. But now that you mention it, did you ever use a retail XP disc to
activate an OEM key? That's when you'd get the call Microsoft and give them
the 9 blocks to get the activation code over the phone dialog. O, don't I
remember those days lol.
1 of the things that has changed between win xp and vista/7, is the method
of install. XP was literally a disc with single files, and those files were
copied to the hard drive or executed as the OS was installed. With windows
vista/7 and above, the OS is stored inside an image (.wim files) and the
files are literally uncompressed and put into the hard drive as they are.
Why this matters: the OEM nowadays make customizations to the WIM image
files, put them on the disc, and give the end user that disc as an OEM disc.
It's hard to tell if the disc is a clean installer by looking at the files
only, since the content is compressed into the .wim images. This is 1 of the
reasons that you can't slipstream service packs into windows 7 for example,
like you could with xp. In xp, the slipstream would replace files in the
i386 folder/subfolders and you'd have an up-to-date OS, in windows 7, to do
this you have to decompress the wim files, get the updates for your
particular edition, slipstream those that support it into the image, and
recompress the wim image.
With XP, you could even remove the $OEM$ folder, make a new disc with the
original xp files, and you would have a almost clean install. With vista/7,
even if there was a $OEM$ folder and you removed it and made a new disc,
you'll never know if the OEM put custom files or registry entries in the
actual wim image before it was deployed to disc. I hope my explanation makes
sense? lol.
For example of custom images, when building systems, I'll sometimes make
custom windows installers for the client with windows updates, drivers for
the machine and certain programs or tweaks applied (if they request it) so
that whenever they install windows, they don't have to hunt down drivers and
spend half a day installing windows updates. This is not a restore image,
but a literal single DVD from which they can install windows.
Regarding activation, One of the files that the OEM copies by default is
their XRMS certificate for activating windows with their product keys;
that's why I say that an OEM disc will always activate with that OEM's key,
because the XRMS certificate is included. A retail copy of windows (1 that
is as Microsoft ships), does not include a certificate except for the
install (30 day trial). When you activate the OS online, the proper XRMS is
either created or downloaded (not sure) for that computer and key. When you
put in an OEM key into the system and do the online activation, Microsoft
might not let you activate, because the key is an OEM key. The reason for
this is that by definition, OEM copies of windows are to be supported by the
equipment's manufacturer, meaning Microsoft wants nothing to do with it.
They use to be a bit leanient back in the day with OEM activations, but due
to the many piracy issues, they've gotten stricter
So to summarize, if the disc is OEM or has the proper OEM certificate that
matches the OEm product Key, Windows will/should activate just fine. If the
disc used is a Retail disc, you might run into issues with Microsoft when
trying to activate.
HTH, D!J!X!
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Phil Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 5:23 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
Every day's a school day, smile. Have purchased laptops in the past with
keys on the bottom and used OEM disks to perform clean installs using said
keys and never ran into any issue with activation. Mind you, that was back
in the XP days so it's possible that things have changed since then.
Regards, Phil Muir
Accessibility Training
Telephone: UK+44-1747-228-459
Mobile: UK +44-7968-136-246
E-mail:
info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
URL:
www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/
Twitter:
@demuirs
Sound Cloud:
http://www.soundcloud.com/demuirs
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: 14 March 2015 21:18
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
This is true, however it's usually only for retail channel. Since the laptop
is made by an OEM, the key is registered to them as an OEM key, so it might
or might not work. Even if the iso did download, activation would be a whole
different story, since you'd need an OEM certificate to go with the key.
The discs that the OEM provides has the certificate in the image, so that's
why they activate with no problem.
HTh, D!J!X!
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:17 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
you can download a Windows ISO from Microsoft, provided you have your
license key to give them.
At 03:24 PM 3/14/2015, you wrote:
>Is there a way to download my version of windows from the Internet, to
>include just the basic windows?
>
>Manny,
>sent from my iPhone 5s
>
> > On Mar 14, 2015, at 11:44 AM, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> >
> > What do you mean by factory CD? 1 from Microsoft? Or an alienware
> > disc? If it's from the manufacturer, there's a 80%
> chance it's not clean; though they
> > don't include the apps and such, they often make registry edits and
> > include drivers and such in the OEM portion of setup, which can
> > tamper with the installation. That's what I'm referring to when I
> > say clean install. By definition, a clean install is 1 that uses a
> > disc straight from Microsoft, that has a "vanilla" image of the
> > proper
windows version.
> > For example, dell and HP usually include windows discs with their
> > pro model computers, however when you examine the discs, you'll
> > quickly find that the images have been altered, or the setup scripts
> > have been changed to include OEM (original equipment manufacturer)
items.
> > In your case, the disc is probably a better
> choice than the image, since the
> > image is probably loaded with bloatware (unnecessary software/demos
> > which slow the system down).
> >
> > HTH, D!J!X!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Manny Rivas
> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 2:28 PM
> > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
> >
> > While I have the original factory CD with Windows 7 ultimate I also
> > have a backup image, what do you suggest I do
> install from CD? And then run all the
> > updates and then install Cakewalk or should I just install Windows 7
> > ultimate from CD and then sonar and Kate talking?
> >
> > Manny,
> > sent from my iPhone 5s
> >
> >> On Mar 14, 2015, at 10:57 AM, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> >>
> >> Is this a clean windows install? Meaning are you using an original
> >> clean installer? Or is it a restore disc, or a manufacturer
> >> provided disc? Those are never "clean" installations.
> >> You should be able to clean install windows 7 sp1, install Sonar
> >> 8.5.3 and CT, and run it with no crashes. You are more than likely
> >> to get a crash with updates if that's the case.
> >> I run my DAW offline with no windows updates except for dot net
> >> 4.5.1 (offline installed) and I've never had problems with apps
> >> crashing or issues with sonar.
> >>
> >> HTH, D!J!X!
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Manny Rivas
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 1:37 PM
> >> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 7 operating system questions
> >>
> >> Well, the question is because I want to install sonar and kick
> >> talking but I've been getting a app crash bar long and I
> >> reinstalled windows and want to know if it is safe to reinstall an
> >> updated machine and look at me this problem anymore.
> >>
> >> Manny,
> >> sent from my iPhone 5s
> >>
> >>> On Mar 14, 2015, at 10:00 AM, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Phil, it only happens with certain hardware, usually not a
> >>> problem for a custom built daw, but not the same case for an off
> >>> the shelf machine. For the macs, Windows drivers are usually not
> >>> updated from windows updates, as those mainly come from bootcamp.
> >>>
> >>> HTh, D!J!X!
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Phil Muir
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 11:49 AM
> > PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
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