As far as opinions go, you are absolutely correct. Everyone has an opinion and that's the way it should be. I don't necessarily find the reply from David an "attack" as it was a response to one on a product, regardless of it being opinion based, but that, not surprisingly, is strictly...my opinion. I do want to state my opinion on tactile graphics as it does relate to the two below messages. It might be straying off topic to the Duxbury list, but its, indirectly related just the same. Tactile representations of diagrams, pictures, equations or anything else are probably the most underrated aspect of blindness in an education environment. I certainly wasn't exposed to this as much as I wish when I was in high school and grade school, and I don't think, as with just about all the other blindness technologies, blind students fully appreciate this fact. It literally opens a new world to one who cannot see and gives one a perspective that cannot be stressed enough. What Duxbury, Repro-Tronics, and any embosser maker has done towards this end simply cannot be thanked enough by the blind. With that said, I will say this in terms of my experiences with embossed images. I am speaking about embossed representations on Braille paper and not any done on the thermo form paper. Sometimes, more can be too much. What I mean is this. It is like a sighted person trying to look at a picture or TV show in which too much color or glare is present or any person at a concert in which the music is so loud, the singer cannot be clearly heard over the instruments. The concept of four levels of dots and more dots per inch is fine and well, but I have been able to compare such complex images done on various embossers. Frankly, I have found myself more confused, bewildered and concerned than impressed by the Tiger products. There are two basic elements I am speaking of here. First, as I said, more can be too much. Simply, all the dots and levels did little more than make me feel like I was trying to listen to someone speaking to me from across the table at a trade show in which you have hundreds of people present in the room and dozens of speech products and presentations going on around me at once. I just couldn't get a grasp of what I was feeling, even when it was pointed out to me what it was supposed to be. Secondly, the effects on the paper itself was easily noted. I would seriously question both the dot degradation and paper integrity with so much puncturing occurring. Couple this with a school environment with a kid who, let's say, might not treat the images all that carefully, and I could find myself predicting the paper literally falling apart in a matter of time Again, I am speaking from my own personal experiences and, of course, from my own opinions. Some may debate me, and that is fine. I just will take my 17 dots per inch and graphics done on an Index embosser or Enabling embosser if it was me having to either recommend or advocate for a blind student. I mean absolutely no offense to the manufacturer of Tiger products nor to those who stand behind them. I'm also not looking for any reactions that will cause this list to go any more off topic, as I apologize to any who might feel my post has already done this. Take Care John D. Panarese Managing Director Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc. 9 Nolan Court Hauppauge, NY 11788 Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479 Email, tvii@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA, PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS, PULSEDATA, DUXBURY, DANCING DOTS, ROBOTRON, AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED -----Original Message----- From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Clark Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:22 AM To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [duxuser] Re: reply Opinions, its just opinions. Take a shot at the opinions, not at those who state them. "Alan; to sit back and take a cheap shot at someone else's product without stating your name..." Hmmm, what happened there? That message was signed. You called him by name and in the same breath chastised him for not stating his name? LOL Voicing opinions is legal. Attacking opinions is also legal. *---* *---* *---* *---* *---* All those who believe in psychokinetic raise my hand. Robert & Dreamer Doll (Guide Dawggie) Newport, Oregon N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup rclark0276@xxxxxxxxxxx http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/ NEW Home Page! * * * * This message is via list duxuser at freelists.org. * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with * unsubscribe * as the subject to <duxuser-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription * options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive * is also located there. * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com * * * * * * * This message is via list duxuser at freelists.org. * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with * unsubscribe * as the subject to <duxuser-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription * options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive * is also located there. * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com * * *