Walter: Here are some responses to your questions 1. HSPICE and some other SPICEs implement the Laplace and pole-zero elements as a network function WITHIN controlled sources including the VCVS (E) and VCCS (G) elements. The documention is hard to find, but the HSPICE syntax is in the HSPICE Applications Manual: Exxx n+ n- LAPLACE in+ in- k0 k1 ... kn / b0 b1 ... bm Gxxx n+ n- LAPLACE in+ in- k0 k1 ... kn / b0 b1 ... bm Exxx n+ n- POLE in+ in- a {cmpl zeros) / b (cmpl poles} Gxxx n+ n- POLE in+ in- a {cmpl zeros) / b (cmpl poles} 2. I think of a pole-zero block, not as the single Laplace transfer element, but as an n-port block such as proposed in some private Touchstone-like formats and possibly implemented internally and automatically from n-port table data. My question: When you say interconnect block modules of Resistor/Inductor/ Capacitor, do you really mean a low-level SPICE or SPICE-like syntax within "SPICE" subcircuits for interconnect structures? That is where K and controlled sources are valuable for many reasons. While we have not really discussed this, I have been assuming that we need such low-level capability for EMD. We could formally add a basic SPICE-syntax subcircuit to the list below as one of the modules with its internal SPICE-like netlist used for connecting the R/L/C/K/E/F/G/H ... elements. Bob Walter Katz wrote: > All, > > > > Based on the following assumptions for an EMD: > > > > * A module as a netlist of IBIS components and external pins > * Interconnect models between these IBIS component pins consist of a > netlist of interconnect blocks > * Interconnect block models are: > o Resistors > o Inductors > o Capacitors > o Distributed RLGC models > o S parameter Models > o Impulse Response Models > o Pole-Zero Models > > > > The purpose of this e-mail is to raise the issue of what is a Pole-Zero > model and why do we need voltage controlled sources. > > > > I refer to http://www.ece.uci.edu/docs/hspice/hspice_2001_2-217.html > > > > > Understanding Pole/Zero Analysis > > In pole/zero analysis, a network is described by its network transfer > function which, for any linear time-invariant network, can be written in > the general form: > > > > In the factorized form, the general function is: > > > > It seems to me that a Pole-Zero model can either be represented as a set > of numbers like the polynomial coefficients a0, b0, a1, b1, a2, b2, .. > or the factorized form a0, b0, z1, p1, z2, p2, ? > > Where is the controlled voltage source? > > I assume that one can model the pole-zero form into Spice, Verilog, and > VHDL primitives, and doing so might utilize controlled voltage sources > and other simulator specific models. > > Why it is not sufficient to just have a Pole-Zero model (either with > polynomial coefficients and/or pole-zero coefficients). > > Walter > -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC --------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS Macro website : http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/ IBIS Macro reflector: //www.freelists.org/list/ibis-macro To unsubscribe send an email: To: ibis-macro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: unsubscribe