[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
- From: Sarah Alawami <marrie12@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 05:47:26 -0800
So you still cannot show and hide the items by hitting the show all and hide
all items in the help books? I find this extremly odd indedd that this will not
work even after a vo reset. I think then it might be either a focus issue or a
general os issue.
Take care.
On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
> No, now all is well. resetting to defaults for both VO and safari has
> returned me to the place I knew before. I have also starting playing around
> with the activities options of VO so as to save the latest best working
> environment. At least, I think this is the feature I can use to do this.
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>
>> So now that you reset your vo settings? can you now access the show hide
>> clickable items that you were having trouble accessing? or are they still
>> not accessible to your voice over? If that's the case it looks like it's
>> time for either permissions repair or a reinstall of the os, but I really
>> hope that's not the case as both are annoying.
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 4:15 PM, George B <gbmagoo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Lol I think the subject line could be changed by now, please.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 15:29
>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>
>>>> So now I've got VO reset to the initial defaults. I'm going to look
>>>> around the VO utility and check out how things are set.
>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> you can reset vo by opening the vo utility with vo-f8 and activating
>>>> the reset all voiceover preferences menu item under the file menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> Slow down, read carefully, talk to apple, don't get frustrated.
>>>> Thousands of us are able to use vo just fine and you will be too as
>>>> soon as you *grasp* it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so I have all the commanders turned off (including the touch-pad
>>>> commander). Same non-results.
>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have also tried with the keyboard commander and num-pad commanders
>>>> off with the same non-results. So it is the same with or without quick-
>>>> nav, keyboard or num-pad commanders. Is there a way of repairing or
>>>> reinstalling safari? VoiceOver? Is there a way of resetting either of
>>>> these to their default settings? Maybe I've mis-configured one or the
>>>> other into garbage.
>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick nav? press the left
>>>> and right arrow keys together to toggle quick nav. make sure it is
>>>> turned off before you vo click show.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez"
>>>> <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this
>>>> work in the not too distant past but it isn't working now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with
>>>> voiceover?
>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> vo right arrow after clicking show.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a
>>>> content list with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those
>>>> links (lets say the "selecting a sigle item" link) or open the contents
>>>> list by interacting with it and then arrowing down to the link. In
>>>> either case, the result is the same. A list of "show" clickable items
>>>> appears which when clicked on does not display text information but
>>>> only changes the "show" option to a "hide" option.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item
>>>> every time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-
>>>> pad #7. The problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that
>>>> the explanatory text never appears. or maybe it does but I don't know
>>>> where.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what
>>>> they can add to the mix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because
>>>> are describing something you are interacting with and vo-shift-up arrow
>>>> should stop interacting. vo right and left arrow move through the
>>>> text.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know
>>>> about the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of
>>>> arrow keys to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic
>>>> original problem remains. Oh well. back to the front!
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you
>>>> were interacting with something.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I press "cvo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up
>>>> arrow"? cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor
>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> press cvo-shift-up arrow and then try vo-right.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top
>>>> or bottom of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other
>>>> topics or groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you vo space on the clickable item, try navigating right
>>>> with the VO and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for
>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez"
>>>> <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not
>>>> get it when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper
>>>> window within the application by using the command-f2 twice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain
>>>> how to select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a
>>>> list of clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I
>>>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as
>>>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to
>>>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing I
>>>> seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do I
>>>> go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or more
>>>> items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and
>>>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the
>>>> navigational mode or something?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the
>>>> escape key, will cycle you through open windows in an application.
>>>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications. For the help,
>>>> try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the window
>>>> chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down arrows to
>>>> see a list of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hummmm what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>> Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grav key. This will
>>>> move you from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in
>>>> Snowleopard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember
>>>> that command
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to
>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO
>>>> utilities window.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I
>>>> only see one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of
>>>> those other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me
>>>> back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows
>>>> within an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one
>>>> to another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even
>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be
>>>> (and needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window
>>>> where I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to
>>>> write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return
>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not
>>>> the help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this
>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back
>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about
>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need
>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would
>>>> speed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I
>>>> know I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking
>>>> areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show"
>>>> clickable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except
>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related
>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should
>>>> be enough
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve
>>>> as a place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you
>>>> for whom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>>>> any
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>>>> any changes to
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>> with his
>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>
>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>
>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
>>
>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>> their list subscription is:
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>
>> The list archive is located at
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>
>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
************
You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
their list subscription is:
//www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
The list archive is located at
//www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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