I have to disagree with you on NVDA. I have programs I can not use fully with
NVDA. One of them is Intelle-j. There is a problem with some windows that
will not be seen by NVDA. I will have to check and see if they have been fixed
in the last couple weeks but lets just say when you deal with all the
development stuff I do NVDA and Jaws are a must use together not separate.
-----Original Message-----
From: raspberry-vi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <raspberry-vi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Michael A Ray (Redacted sender "mike.ray" for DMARC)
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:58 PM
To: raspberry-vi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [raspberry-vi] Re: Thanks for your hard work
You won't get a lot of sense out of Access-UK, or "the Steve Nutt Show"
as I like to call it, with reference to NVDA>
NVDA is a great screen reader. In my opinion the only reason Jaws is still a
thing is because Freedom Scientific use drug-dealer tactics to get kids hooked
on it while they are at school or college.
And of course the only reason folk stick with MS Office is because everybody
else is using it. I have to submit data for my tax return shortly to my
accountant. If I sent her a Libre Office spreadsheet she would think I have
gone mad.
The thing about computing, is there is always more than one way to do anything.
Usually, if something is not accessible under NVDA, just use some other tool,
still using NVDA. No need to spend £1000 on Jaws.
Libre Office accessibility is rubbish on Windows, but IMHO not because of NVDA.
It keeps going silent.
It is far better with Orca on Linux, but still not perfect.
I have not used a text-mode browser for years, just because of the prevalence
of Javascript nowadays.
On 03/01/2021 20:38, kperry@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Don't say this on the Google access list. I said almost the same thing you
did about using a graphical and that the text were not up to it yet. Man
there are some lynx hold outs that do everything and I mean everything You
tube net flicks you name it all in lynx with external tools. Its scary.
They jumped me and told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. Well
after that I gave it a shot. Lets just say it can be done all from the
command line but the work it takes to get to it seems a bit crazy when it is
so much easier with the current GUI web browsers and screen readers.
-----Original Message-----
From: raspberry-vi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<raspberry-vi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Mewtamer
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 1:37 AM
To: raspberry-vi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [raspberry-vi] Re: Thanks for your hard work
I haven't really used an office suite since going blind(which happened in
2012), but I switched from MS Office to OpenOffice long before I switched
from Windows to Linux, and even when I could see, I absolutely hated MS
Office 2007 and 2010. Can't personally comment on LibreOffice with either
Orca under Linux or NVDA under Windows, but the last time I had reason to use
a Windows, I found using Firefox with NVDA almost identical to using Firefox
with Orca.
That said, while I've been using Linux full-time on my personal computers
since late 2005 or early 2006, I do pretty much everything that isn't done in
a web browser from the command line, and would probably ditch the GUI
altogether if I could find a text-mode web browser I thought anywhere near as
usable as Firefox is with Orca.
Sadly, as much as I think most web designers abuse JavaScript and other rich
web content, there are too many websites that depend on such, most text-only
web browsers either lack support for JavaScript altogether or only have
limited support, the navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS
are so darn useful I wonder how sighted me got by without them, and a
text-mode web browser preserving the visual layout of web pages with multiple
columns doesn't work too well with how text-mode screen readers tend to
work... and that's not even getting into how text-mode web browsers tend to
have key bindings that seem completely alien to someone coming from a GUI
browser.
If my programming skills were up to the task of writing a text-mode web
browser or adding new features to an existing one, some of the items on my
personal wish list would be:
-Firefox-like keybindings
-Orca-like navigational hotkeys.
--Display web pages in a single-column format by default.
-keyboard shortcut to switch between browse and focus mode.
-Focused web elements stretch to fill the screen's width, padding with
whitespace if needed.
-Focused web elements have a type identifier added to their text.
-Full support for functional aspects of JavaScript and HTML5 while generally
ignoring eyecandy aspects.
-Keyboard shortcut to toggle JavaScript on/off on the current page,
refreshing if applicable.
-Attempt to force all JavaScript et. al. clickables and form elements to be
tab focusable and to respond to spacebar or enter as they would to a mouse
click.
-Basically, build into the browser itself, many of the accessibility
featuresOrca provides through being able to communicate with what graphical
browsers are doing behind the scenes that a text-mode screen reader can't due
to only being able to see what's printed to the terminal screen.
As for Gnome versus Mate, while I don't use either, they're generally
considered to be the two desktop environments that are most compatible with
Orca, and which is better is ultimately as much personal preference for blind
people as it is for sighted people. That said, it's my understanding that
Orca generally works well with most applications that use GTK 2 or 3 while QT
apps are generally much less compatible(and thus, KDE isn't recommended for
blind use)... I have read some concerns that Wayland and GTK4 might break
compatibility with Orca as they become more widespread, but I don't know
enough to know how worried one should be about such developments.
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Raspberry Pi and the Raspberry Pi logo are trademarks of the Raspberry Pi
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This list is not affiliated to the Raspberry Pi Foundation and the views and
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the Foundation.
Mike Ray, list creator, January 2013
===========================================================
The raspberry-vi mailing list
Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/raspberry-vi
Administrative contact: <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Raspberry Pi and the Raspberry Pi logo are trademarks of the Raspberry Pi
Foundation.
This list is not affiliated to the Raspberry Pi Foundation and the views and
attitudes expressed by the subscribers to this list do not reflect those of
the Foundation.
Mike Ray, list creator, January 2013
