[bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
- From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:33:15 -0500
Scott,
Converting from ARK to RTF doesn't cause the problem with quotes. The
problem occurs during the OCR recognition step. I don't know if this is
isolated to OpenBook, or if it happens in K-1000 then K-1000 corrects the
problem before the step is complete.
Converting to TXT to fix the quotes is rather drastic because you lose
everything that makes a Rich Text File rich. That includes things like font
attributes such as font size, italics, and bold.
The better alternative is to fix the quotes with a global search and
replace. Just replace characters 147 and 148 with 34, and characters 145
and 146 with 39. If you don't have any other way to create the characters,
you can hold down the Alt key in Windows and type the number proceeded by a
0 for a three digit number such as 0147or two 0's for a 2 digit number such
as 0034. Remember to turn NumLock on if you're using JAWS. BTW, you can
also just copy and paste to get the characters. Also, you should be able to
get 34 and 39 by just typing the appropriate quote character from the
keyboard.
HTH
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Blanks
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:01 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
Jake,
Are you saying if I save from .ark to .txt, then open that document in word,
and immediately save to .rtf, certain things will be lost? Thus, should I go
directly from .ark to .rtf? I don't believe this is a great choice either,
because as I recall, this causes issues with the quotes and apostrophes.
Ideas?
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
> Hi Scott,
>
> Please do not do that TXT step. Putting a file in that format makes it
> lose nice things like font size, and style, which includes italics.
> Personally I'd rather see a blank page disappear than I would these
> somewhat important items.
>
> BTW As you process the book you could place a certain set of characters on
> a blank page (and then it's no longer blank), so that it won't be lost
> during the save to RTF. You can then remove those symbols in another
> editor like Microsoft Word. I know this is a little more work, but the
> above reason is one of the many things that made BookShare stop accepting
> TXT files.
>
> Have a good one, our horror fan.
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:38 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>
>
>> Yeah Gerald, I remember a discussion on this list many months ago. I
>> think one of the positives that came of that exchange of ideas was that
>> when working with Openbook files, it's best to convert to .txt, open that
>> text file in ms word, and immediately save that file as an rtf document.
>> As I recall, this helped not only with quotes, but also to eliminate the
>> removal of blank pages.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:03 AM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> I think my second message which corrected my goof explained this, but
>>> you
>>> want 39 and 34 in the scan. That's the characters that the Braille
>>> translator likes.
>>>
>>> OpenBook has a habit of using the other characters, especially the one
>>> for
>>> the closing double quote.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Blanks
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:57 AM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>
>>> Gerald,
>>>
>>> Ok, so when I convert my openbook file into an rtf document, the
>>> punctuation
>>>
>>> that is appearing at the beginning and end of dialog is character 39. Is
>>> this good or bad? Or does it mean anything at all? I'm mystified. Also,
>>> the
>>> apostrophes are appearing as character 39.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:47 AM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>> Yes. The opening and closing single quotes are in the 140's or 8000's
>>>> depending on which code your screen reader decides to announce. JAWS
>>>> version 7 has been announcing the four digit number, and the version 5
>>>> I
>>>> used to run announced the 3 digit number.
>>>>
>>>> HTH
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Blanks
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:39 AM
>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>
>>>> Pratik, can I determine if these are proper single quotes by checking
>>>> that
>>>> they are ascii character 39? Hope I'm phrasing that correctly.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:29 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Braille formatting has no problem with properly converting single
>>>>> quote
>>>>> characters, so long as they are proper ASCII single quotes and not
>>>>> stand-in
>>>>> apostrophes. If apostrophes appear where single quotation symbols
>>>>> should
>>>>> be, then braille conversion will not be correct. You are absolutely
>>>>> right
>>>>> that a global replace presents incredible challenges. Automatic
>>>>> braille
>>>>> conversion isn't smart enough to take care of this kind of difficulty
>>>>> at
>>>>> this time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pratik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:15 AM
>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you're wrong about how they come out in BRF
>>>>> format, because I've done at least 4 books that way
>>>>> that I can think of--no, five or six that I remember.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you read in Braille? If so, download the most
>>>>> recent ones like that I validated, Blood Royal and/or
>>>>> Transit of Venus (Did you scan and submit that one? I
>>>>> can't remember) and see how they came out. If they
>>>>> don't read properly, then we need to know that, and
>>>>> also need to know from the officials what to do. A
>>>>> global change would make apostrophes also double
>>>>> quotes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy R
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Scott Blanks <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, English author. And published within the past
>>>>>> 15 years. I would have no
>>>>>> problem leaving things as they are, but I don't
>>>>>> believe it will come out
>>>>>> well in the Braille format. I'm hoping someone can
>>>>>> comment on this concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've converted what I've scanned into the rtf
>>>>>> format, and the quotes are
>>>>>> still appearing as single quotes or apostrophes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:01 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes
>>>>>> appearing as single quotes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Scott,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Is this a book written by an English as opposed to
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> > American author? The English do it that way. They
>>>>>> > also, I've seen in books I've validated, omit the
>>>>>> > period we put after titles like Mr., and put
>>>>>> > punctuation marks outside quotation marks instead
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> > inside, as we do. Some of that may depend on when
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > book was published, but I'm not sure.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > To find out more about the differences, as well as
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> > interesting take on grammar and punctuation, I
>>>>>> > recommend Eats Shoots and Leaves, which is in the
>>>>>> > collection. It's an amusing book.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Which reminds me, spelling differs, too, z being
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> > in words like amusing instead of s.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > When I validate a book like that, I don't change
>>>>>> > anything but I do put in the long synopsis that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > book used English rather than American spelling
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> > punctuation.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Grandma Cindy
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --- Scott Blanks <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Hello all,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I'm using Openbook to scan a novel. Where dialog
>>>>>> >> appears in the book,
>>>>>> >> Openbook is identifying what should be double
>>>>>> quotes
>>>>>> >> at the beginning and
>>>>>> >> end of spoken passages as single quotes. I'm
>>>>>> >> concerned that all of these
>>>>>> >> single quotes will have to be converted to the
>>>>>> >> proper quotation marks. Am I
>>>>>> >> correct in this assumption, and if so, is there
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> >> easy way to do this? Or
>>>>>> >> another thought ... is there a scanning setting I
>>>>>> >> can adjust within Openbook
>>>>>> >> so the inaccurate marks will be seen properly?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>>> >> Scott
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
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>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
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