[bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
- From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:43:58 -0500
Scott,
You're obviously not sure that we're giving you good advice now. Did you
stop to consider that whoever gave you the conversion to TXT advice may not
have given you good advice back then? They didn't stop to realize that they
were doing amputation when the cure only needed a band-aid.
If you do the search in replace in OpenBook, then you could have problems.
However, if you do it in other software such as Word, like Jake mentioned,
then you don't have to worry about OpenBook messing them up during the
conversion. In either case, I don't believe OpenBook or Word will change
them unless you do some editing at that spot in the file. I've tested that
in Word, but not OpenBook since I prefer to validate in Word. All you have
to do is close the file and open it back up, then check to see if the quotes
have been modified.
Of course, you can turn off smart quotes in Word, then you won't have to
worry that Word is monkeying with them. To do this, follow the instructions
from Word's help info that I pasted below. Note that I found an easy tip
for fixing them included in that help info.
HTH
Gerald
Change curly quotes to straight quotes and vice versa
Microsoft Word automatically changes straight quotation marks ( ' or " ) to
curly (smart or typographer's) quotes (
Smart single quotation marks or
Smart double quotation marks ) as you type.
To turn this feature on or off:
List of 2 items
1. On the Tools menu, click AutoCorrect Options, and then click the
AutoFormat As You Type tab.
2. Under Replace as you type, select or clear the "Straight quotes" with
"smart quotes" check box.
list end
Note You can find and replace all instances of single or double curly
quotes with straight quotes in your document. To do this, clear the
"Straight quotes"
with "smart quotes" check box on the AutoFormat As You Type tab. On the Edit
menu, click Replace. In both the Find what and Replace with boxes, type '
or ", and then click Find Next or Replace All.
To replace all straight quotes with curly quotes, select the "Straight
quotes" with "smart quotes" check box, and repeat the find and replace
procedure.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jake Brownell
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:58 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
Hi Scott,
If you do the replacements Gerald suggests in Microsoft Word, you'll have to
turn off the feature that makes Word play around with quotes. I think it's
called smart quotes and instructions for disabling it are in the recognizing
potential problem characters tip, at the end.
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
Let us know what your findings are after trying it.
Jake
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
> Gerald,
>
> I'll try one book that way--submit it, have it validated, and accepted
> into the collection. But if my memory serves, the quotes can be an issue
> if you go from .ark to .rtf, even if, after the global f&p, Jaws seems to
> read the proper numbers. I don't remember specific details, but it was
> after seeing one of these manglings in Braille that I initially posed a
> similar issue to the list many months ago, and I was advised to go the txt
> route. Sorry, can't site specific names here, it was too long ago. I'm
> going to download one of the books I first submitted which had ugly quotes
> and describe them to the list, see if anybody has an epiphany.
>
> Scott
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:33 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Converting from ARK to RTF doesn't cause the problem with quotes. The
>> problem occurs during the OCR recognition step. I don't know if this is
>> isolated to OpenBook, or if it happens in K-1000 then K-1000 corrects the
>> problem before the step is complete.
>>
>> Converting to TXT to fix the quotes is rather drastic because you lose
>> everything that makes a Rich Text File rich. That includes things like
>> font
>> attributes such as font size, italics, and bold.
>>
>> The better alternative is to fix the quotes with a global search and
>> replace. Just replace characters 147 and 148 with 34, and characters 145
>> and 146 with 39. If you don't have any other way to create the
>> characters,
>> you can hold down the Alt key in Windows and type the number proceeded by
>> a
>> 0 for a three digit number such as 0147or two 0's for a 2 digit number
>> such
>> as 0034. Remember to turn NumLock on if you're using JAWS. BTW, you can
>> also just copy and paste to get the characters. Also, you should be able
>> to
>> get 34 and 39 by just typing the appropriate quote character from the
>> keyboard.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Blanks
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:01 PM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>
>> Jake,
>>
>> Are you saying if I save from .ark to .txt, then open that document in
>> word,
>>
>> and immediately save to .rtf, certain things will be lost? Thus, should I
>> go
>>
>> directly from .ark to .rtf? I don't believe this is a great choice
>> either,
>> because as I recall, this causes issues with the quotes and apostrophes.
>> Ideas?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:54 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>
>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> Please do not do that TXT step. Putting a file in that format makes it
>>> lose nice things like font size, and style, which includes italics.
>>> Personally I'd rather see a blank page disappear than I would these
>>> somewhat important items.
>>>
>>> BTW As you process the book you could place a certain set of characters
>>> on
>>
>>> a blank page (and then it's no longer blank), so that it won't be lost
>>> during the save to RTF. You can then remove those symbols in another
>>> editor like Microsoft Word. I know this is a little more work, but the
>>> above reason is one of the many things that made BookShare stop
>>> accepting
>>> TXT files.
>>>
>>> Have a good one, our horror fan.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jake
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:38 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah Gerald, I remember a discussion on this list many months ago. I
>>>> think one of the positives that came of that exchange of ideas was that
>>>> when working with Openbook files, it's best to convert to .txt, open
>>>> that
>>
>>>> text file in ms word, and immediately save that file as an rtf
>>>> document.
>>>> As I recall, this helped not only with quotes, but also to eliminate
>>>> the
>>>> removal of blank pages.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:03 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think my second message which corrected my goof explained this, but
>>>>> you
>>>>> want 39 and 34 in the scan. That's the characters that the Braille
>>>>> translator likes.
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenBook has a habit of using the other characters, especially the one
>>>>> for
>>>>> the closing double quote.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Blanks
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:57 AM
>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerald,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so when I convert my openbook file into an rtf document, the
>>>>> punctuation
>>>>>
>>>>> that is appearing at the beginning and end of dialog is character 39.
>>>>> Is
>>>>> this good or bad? Or does it mean anything at all? I'm mystified.
>>>>> Also,
>>>>> the
>>>>> apostrophes are appearing as character 39.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Gerald Hovas" <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:47 AM
>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single quotes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. The opening and closing single quotes are in the 140's or
>>>>>> 8000's
>>>>>> depending on which code your screen reader decides to announce. JAWS
>>>>>> version 7 has been announcing the four digit number, and the version
>>>>>> 5
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> used to run announced the 3 digit number.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott
>>>>>> Blanks
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:39 AM
>>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single
>>>>>> quotes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pratik, can I determine if these are proper single quotes by checking
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> they are ascii character 39? Hope I'm phrasing that correctly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:29 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single
>>>>>> quotes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Braille formatting has no problem with properly converting single
>>>>>>> quote
>>>>>>> characters, so long as they are proper ASCII single quotes and not
>>>>>>> stand-in
>>>>>>> apostrophes. If apostrophes appear where single quotation symbols
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> be, then braille conversion will not be correct. You are absolutely
>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>> that a global replace presents incredible challenges. Automatic
>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>> conversion isn't smart enough to take care of this kind of
>>>>>>> difficulty
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> this time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pratik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:15 AM
>>>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes appearing as single
>>>>>>> quotes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope you're wrong about how they come out in BRF
>>>>>>> format, because I've done at least 4 books that way
>>>>>>> that I can think of--no, five or six that I remember.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you read in Braille? If so, download the most
>>>>>>> recent ones like that I validated, Blood Royal and/or
>>>>>>> Transit of Venus (Did you scan and submit that one? I
>>>>>>> can't remember) and see how they came out. If they
>>>>>>> don't read properly, then we need to know that, and
>>>>>>> also need to know from the officials what to do. A
>>>>>>> global change would make apostrophes also double
>>>>>>> quotes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy R
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Scott Blanks <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cindy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, English author. And published within the past
>>>>>>>> 15 years. I would have no
>>>>>>>> problem leaving things as they are, but I don't
>>>>>>>> believe it will come out
>>>>>>>> well in the Braille format. I'm hoping someone can
>>>>>>>> comment on this concern.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've converted what I've scanned into the rtf
>>>>>>>> format, and the quotes are
>>>>>>>> still appearing as single quotes or apostrophes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:01 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: double quotes
>>>>>>>> appearing as single quotes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > Scott,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Is this a book written by an English as opposed to
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> > American author? The English do it that way. They
>>>>>>>> > also, I've seen in books I've validated, omit the
>>>>>>>> > period we put after titles like Mr., and put
>>>>>>>> > punctuation marks outside quotation marks instead
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> > inside, as we do. Some of that may depend on when
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > book was published, but I'm not sure.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > To find out more about the differences, as well as
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> > interesting take on grammar and punctuation, I
>>>>>>>> > recommend Eats Shoots and Leaves, which is in the
>>>>>>>> > collection. It's an amusing book.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Which reminds me, spelling differs, too, z being
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>> > in words like amusing instead of s.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > When I validate a book like that, I don't change
>>>>>>>> > anything but I do put in the long synopsis that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > book used English rather than American spelling
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> > punctuation.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Grandma Cindy
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --- Scott Blanks <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> Hello all,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I'm using Openbook to scan a novel. Where dialog
>>>>>>>> >> appears in the book,
>>>>>>>> >> Openbook is identifying what should be double
>>>>>>>> quotes
>>>>>>>> >> at the beginning and
>>>>>>>> >> end of spoken passages as single quotes. I'm
>>>>>>>> >> concerned that all of these
>>>>>>>> >> single quotes will have to be converted to the
>>>>>>>> >> proper quotation marks. Am I
>>>>>>>> >> correct in this assumption, and if so, is there
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> >> easy way to do this? Or
>>>>>>>> >> another thought ... is there a scanning setting I
>>>>>>>> >> can adjust within Openbook
>>>>>>>> >> so the inaccurate marks will be seen properly?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> >> Scott
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
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>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >
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