Beautifully written, Barbara….
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 5:39 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Forgiveness
My experience and observation are that forgiveness is a shift of inner stance.
The shift is FROM a stance with emotional baggage TO a stance far more clear
that is free of emotional baggage. That is the place from which real change can
be successfully pursued.
Historically the emotionally wrought people are rarely the sufferers of
horrendous behaviors. Rather the emotion lies more often with those that deem
themselves advocates for them. Those that have suffered have often found a
wisdom that can see the wrong, and the wrongdoers and be free inside
themselves. They do not demonize and their advocacy is both powerful and
beautiful.
Forgiveness never frees the wrongdoers. What was done was done and cannot be
undone. They cannot be free of that reality even though in reconciliation they
can begin to compost it.
The choice for individuals is whether to perpetuate the effects of the
wrongdoing or to transcend them.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2015, at 11:16 AM, 'Heather Embree' heather@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:heather@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
wrote:
Not to take away from your experience and the uniqueness of the African
American Christian community, but I have to agree with Andrew.
I lived in Jamaica as a child (I am a white woman, so I know this is coming
from a place of privilege and outsider perspective), and I was actively
connected to various Caribbean communities growing up. I agree that there is a
depth of love and truth that surpasses the European understanding of
forgiveness that is inherent in the African-descent community, where there
would be many reasons to hate the oppressors and abusers. There is great soul
strength there and it has been a way of coping with serious inequalities.
However, there are underlying issues that still reveal themselves in behaviour,
in true honest feelings. As I would see people in the Church communities, I’d
also see a lot of substance abuse, sexual abuse, over-eating, double-talking
about white people and a block of mistrust. But people would say they had
forgiven. The hurt and anger that hasn’t been felt and expressed will
internalize and go either to self-destruction or projected outwards. My point
is that it creates a barrier to allow in true intimacy and well-being again.
Even though the heart wants to forgive, because many of us don’t want to carry
hate and blame, there are many things that should not be forgiven so quickly
and need voice and action. The truth is more important in this case. “Forgiving
quickly” has become a cultural pattern in that community because there is a
whole history of feeling powerless and it is a great coping mechanism.
I’ve been with partners who are from oppressed cultures and though they say
they have forgiven and are about One Love, their unconscious anger towards
white people impacted our relationship and I would get hurt by not being able
to have a loving and trusting relationship.
With respect always,
Heather
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:00 PM
To: Constellation Talk <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Forgiveness
Thanks for this Andrew! And, I think I disagree. Whatever the family members
mean by “forgiveness” (which may not be “letting go”) I felt them mean it, or
at least mean it aspirationally. I don’t think many of us can identify with the
culture of certain African-American Christian communities (and others) for
which forgiveness is first, middle and last. It is the deepest expression of
how they understand what Jesus was up to. And although it is hard, they see it
as the central way for moving forward into global peace and healing. We can
disagree with it, but I believe they do deeply internalize it and live it as
fully as it’s possible to do. They see forgiveness as a journey and a way of
life, and a matter of deep, deep loving, freedom-based obedience...
The Rev. Leslie Nipps
NLP & Family Constellations Practitioner
“Trust as a Way of Life…”
www.leslienipps.com <http://www.leslienipps.com>
Co-Director, 2015 North American Systemic Constellations Conference in San
Diego on November 12-15.
Visit ConstellateUs.com/conference2015
<http://ConstellateUs.com/conference2015> for more information
On Jul 16, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Andrew White andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
wrote:
Personally, when I hear people speak of forgiveness, I do the following.
I mentally substitute the words "Let go of" for the word "forgiveness."
And I ask myself if the speaker's words then ring true.
So for example, if I imagine a holocaust survivor saying that he or she
has "let go of" what happened in the camps 80 years ago, I could trust
that the forgiveness may be real.
But when, as happened recently after the church shooting in America,
within 24 hours the family go on camera saying that they have forgiven
the killer, then if I translate as "We have let go of this killing", I
hear something unreal.
It may be a cultivated identity as "I am a forgiver", it may be a way to
bind pain or hold the self together, but it is unreal.
I can't really understand forgiveness as other than letting-go-of. And
it takes (depending on the person, depending on the event) time to let
go of intense events.
Best wishes to all
Andrew
On 04/07/2015 01:27, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:erebees@xxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk]
wrote:
Hello to All,
Overwhelming terror and trauma may compel us to find some strategy to
alleviate the pain. Forgiveness may well be one such strategy. Even if
it is illusory, the experience of choice may reduce the sense of
powerlessness, vulnerability and fear. One may feel more powerful and
safe if one can choose this, that or the other. It may well take a high
level of comfort, safety or confidence to contemplate, recognise and
accept powerlessness and vulnerability.
“Vulnerability is not a weakness, a passing indisposition, or something
we can arrange to do without, vulnerability is not a choice,
vulnerability is the underlying, ever present and abiding under-current
of our natural state.” David Whyte
Best wishes to all,
Robert
On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 11:09 PM, Christine Ruettimann
christine.sarena@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:christine.sarena@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:christine.sarena@xxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
__
Hi everyone
I receive the regular newsletter from the Spiritual Media Blog.
This one inspired me and I want to share the letter with you.
It is about forgiveness. I remember our recent thread here about
this topic in constellations.
This is not about constellation but about reconciliation and just
beautiful to behold.
Christine Sarena :)
Spiritual Media Blog Newsletter
In November of 2008, Pakistani Muslim terrorists attacked
Mumbai. One of their targets, the 5-Star Oberoi Hotel, was
where Master Charles Cannon, and twenty-four of his
international Synchronicity associates were staying.
During the ensuing 45-hour siege, four in the group were
wounded and two - long time members Alan Scherr and his
daughter Naomi - were killed.
Charles and Synchronicity survivors responded with
forgiveness. When rescued by SWAT teams and interviewed by
the international media, they all expressed immediate
compassion and understanding toward the terrorists, offering
words of forgiveness, not accusation.
I recently had a chance to interview Master Charles
Cannon about what it was like being in the midst of a
terrorist attack, how he responded and why he chose
to forgive his attackers. His answer really inspired me
when he said:
"Our response was to pay attention, both internally and
externally. Often people panic in a crisis and become so
overwhelmed with fear that they frantically search for
external strategies: "What should I do?"
We asked a different question: "Who am I choosing to be?"
We refused to be victims. That's a choice, after all.
Instead, we chose to continue as we were, focusing on the
inner values that we cherish above all - love, compassion,
peace.....
We didn't condone what the terrorists were doing, of
course, and we certainly felt fear and sorrow. But we were
able to compassionately forgive them because we did not
separate them from ourselves. Oneness includes everyone,
even those most radically different than yourself."
The message that really GOT to me was that he chose
who he was BEING -- and then from that state, he was able to
think and perceive the events much more clearly.
He also acknowledged that he felt fear and sorrow.
These 'negative' emotions often get demonized by some
self-help gurus and spiritual teachers leading to denial,
repression and inauthenticity. However, allowing
yourself to feel, express and work through your heartfelt
fear, sorrow and even anger (especially in times of tragedy)
can eventually put yourself in a position to offer a much
more AUTHENTIC and healing type of forgiveness because your
anger, sadness and fear have been released....
If you want read more about what it was like for Charles,
including some practical actions he took to help himself and
others survive during the attack, you can read the entire
transcript of our interview at:
http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=JeY_s ;
<http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=JeY_s&m=LOEX53S4Dh6qt5&b=tn.d5b6PhLQijuxtnS.iUA>
&m=LOEX53S4Dh6qt5&b=tn.d5b6PhLQijuxtnS.iUA
But, the above passage was the part that really inspired
me!
Peace and Blessings,
Matthew Welsh, Esq.
Creator of Spiritual Media Blog
--The News Source for Spiritual Entertainment--
Satori Group Publishing, 359 N. West St., Indianapolis, IN 46202, USA
