Hello Zaquie and others,
many thanks to all of you who have contributed to my letter. It helps me a lot
to clarify my
own position.
I am writing again because it seems that the intention of my letter was
misunderstandable
although I thought I expressed myself clearly.
I did not and will not complain about the fact that the forum language is
English. In fact I
am very happy that in our generation we have a language that allows us to
communicate
all over the world.
My intention was quite different. Reading about the discussion about what is
allowed in CT
and what is not or "Are there themes or contributions or persons who are
excluded" I
suddenly realized that the idea of a totally open forum is an illusion, even if
there would
not be explicit rules for the use of the forum or the membership. In other
words: We
cannot include everything and everybody because life is a process of continual
inclusion
and exclusion.
The example that I used is the english language. I am fully aware that any
other language
would be much more selective than English. But that doesn't mean that English
is not
selective, even among those who are able to use it. And this selectiveness
means that
apart from the openness of the rules there is an "ingroup" and an "outgroup"
(that's why I
called my letter "a voice from the outside", Sneh).
To me this is just the way it is, I am not complaining about it. I feel fine
with beeing a
spectator or a reader of the CT-Journal and writing a letter once in a while.
Forums like
CT are usefull tools for information and communication but they cannot
represent
something like the worldwide FC community (if there is something like this).
The
discussion in CT represents a very small and very specific part of the
worldwide
constellation scene. It seems better to me to see this clearly. That's why I
wrote my letter.
All the best for the New Year
Wilfried
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Zaquie Meredith" <zaquie@...> wrote:
English and having studied abroad. But English is an international recognized
tTo Wilfried and others
I simpathize with some of the points you mentioned,Wilfried, being brazilian
with fluent
conversation and was surprised that nobody answered me or commented on what I
I must say , though, that when I joined FC one or two times I jumped into the
work is sistemic. How can it not be of interest to us? However, one point is to
I feel that whatever happens in the world is of interest to FC. Of course,
the whole FC
is considering closing up totally) I feel that most people, most of us, would
As to Isca and other associations (our brazilian association does not
function today and
students trained with Jackob ans Sigliend Schineidr and Gunthatd Weber and
Thank you.
Ms.Zaquie Meredith
www.zaquie.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paulo Ferraz e Maria Luiza
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:55 PM
Subject: Fw: [SPAM][ConstellationTalk] CT function
----- Original Message -----
From: Paulo Ferraz e Maria Luiza
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [SPAM][ConstellationTalk] CT function
To Wilfried Nelles and Frank Breuer,
Just to add a few aspects....
I'm Brazilian and we have been trainned mostly by German teachers, about
180 - 200
don't have the right number but I wouldn't be exagerating if I said that we1.000 constellators trainned by foreing teachers.
have at least
We also have now many Brazilian teachersConstelation Talk in Portuguese and we have a national association.
Many of us don't speak or even understand English, but we have also a list
like
For me it is always good to read the e-mails, even though I seldon make anycomments. It keeps me in touch with other ideas and ways os working CT
It takes time to write in other language, but if it was in German it wouldworse (for me impossible).
be much
A wonderfull 2009 for the whole family of constellators all over the world
Maria Luiza
Brasilia - Brasil
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank & Sylvia Breuer
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 2:33 AM
Subject: RE: [SPAM][ConstellationTalk] CT function
Hi Wilfried and others,
Since not all CT members with a first language other than English feel
entirely comfortable with English (including myself), the use of English is
naturally selective.
However, I do not share Wilfried's concerns, e.g. the consequence that CT
does not really represent the whole world of constellation work. That's
fine to me.
Integrating or representing any different movements may be of scientific
interest. From a practitioner's point of view I'd rather be specific and
have local knowledge.
That's why I really appreciate local topics. For example, saying "sorry" to
the Aboriginal Australians has been such an important issue to the whole
nation (which is my new home country) for many years. It's been absolutely
fantastic that it got a place in CT - a good place in fact. Labelling such
issues as "only local" is also a form of censorship.
In my formal psychology training, I was always encouraged to be specific -
it limits top down processes.
It may yet be useful, to have a lively reflection about political issues,
such as the American election.
Why should CT facilitators or therapists abstain from these issues, if they
are moved by them?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you
Frank Breuer,
raised in Germany,
recently moved to Sydney, Australia
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of wilfriednelles
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December 2008 7:51 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SPAM][ConstellationTalk] CT function
Hi all
This is a voice from the outside. This so called censorship seems to be a
really exciting
issue. There seem to be a lot of fears and projections, and an
overestimation of CT. It
stimulated me to think about the function of CT and who is included and who
is excluded.
I would like to mention a few points which are much more exclusive than the
new
guidelines (please forgive my language mistakes):
1) This forum is a private initiative, a deliberate service. So Chris has
every right to
handle it in his own way.
2) There is already a hidden "censorship": the language. As this forum is in
English it has
a big bias towards the Anglo-American community. There is, for example, only
one
German facilitator who makes regulary contributions - Sneh, who is married
with an
American and speaks English at home. Only once in a while you'll find a
contribution from
the Latin-American or Asian or European countries. It seems, as if the FC
community is
merely American / Australian, although the work itself is much stronger in
other parts of
the world. For example: the hype about the American elections - what had it
to do with
FC? The discussion about the apology of the Australian Prime Minister - it
is a local
phenomenon. Or Dan Cohen's PhD? I mean, it's fine that he made it, and it is
good to
know that there is another dissertation, but there are so many peaces of
profound work in
other countries, which are not even mentioned. So the language of the forum
creates a
reality on it's own. To make it clear: I am not against English as the forum
language, but
we should see the implications. Actually it excludes more people from the
discussion then
any new guideline. To me, who is working in many countries in Europe and
Asia but not in
the Anglo-Saxon countries, it is like reading the newspaper to get an
impression what the
people in America and Australia are talking about.
3) So any forum or even an organisation like ISCA will not reflect the
international
community. By the very fact that the language is English it will reflect
basically the Anglo-
American discussion and view. When, for examle, I read the basic article
about
constellations on the ISCA webpage I didn't feel represented at all. I
honour the huge work
which has been done by those who created this site but reading this article
I felt it is a
different world. To me it is a very artificial construction about FC and
it's "roots" (which
are merely products of thought) which tries hard to look sophisticated and
scientific. I
didn't find any depth in it. No soul, no spirit, just thought. This of
course is not only a
question of language, but it seems clear that the language creates a shift
in the
perspectives and discussions. This may not be bad, and I don't see any
alternative to
English as the international language, but it has it's consequences.
4) I think the forum is a very useful tool to connect, but not more. And it
is an
American-Australian forum, it doesn't represent or integrate something like
the
international FC community. And similar will be a blog on the ISCA website.
5) To write this took me twice or three times as long then to write in my
own language.
And I am only able to share informations, I am not able to express myself
authentically.
Wilfried Nelles, Germany
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