Dearest Carolyn..
Absolutely BRILLIANT, sensitive and true.....The spitting I mentioned
earlier can be very effective with Trauma as we ALL started out
innocent....That part can be the agreeable whereas the wounded part not... I
totally agree that there is no pat formula and it ALL is a case by case
basis.... We do not want them to be the victim of the Facilitator which
leaves us in a Perpetrator role and they into the Victim pleasing role yet
again....Brilliant observation as to the Depths we need to go....Thanks for
your deep and concise observations... I bow to your wisdom and the Divine
Feminine you embody AND the Smart, brilliant woman that you are.
Namaste Gary Stuart LA, CA Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carolyn Zahner
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:31 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Bowing Note--Gesture Doesn't Equal or
Create Feeling
Dear All,
Thank you all for the many insightful posts in this thread. I am grateful
for so many teachers on this forum.
I would like to contribute my perspectives. Having worked with trauma,
specifically, with abused women and children for over 30 years, I experience
bowing in Constellations as having the potential to be one of the most
powerful healing movements and one of the most damaging inappropriate
movements.
I am grateful for Chris's clear statement, "... it is good to remember that
a person needs to be able to stand up before they can bow. That is the first
move."
And, Thomas, "...Children grow up in the field of their parents and often
never learn how to separate fields, have boundaries and become adults."
The capacity to stand, or to learn how to separate fields is something that
is deeply impaired in people who have suffered extreme parental abuse;
particularly, incest. Often such adults adopt the survival behavior of a
bowed position in life; being small, powerless and "humble" before the
abusive parent or partner with no ability to stand up for themselves. In the
perpetual victim state, they remain in abusive relationships, suffer
recurring rapes and teach their children, usually the female children abject
powerlessness while the young boys learn that violence against women is what
it looks like to be a man. Their family systems are saturated with these
teachings which are validated by religious teachings and cultural messages.
It is hard to find a different model.
Unfortunately, bowing in Constellations can be misconstrued by the client
(and facilitator) in such a way that toxic patterns are repeated and
supported. Most abused women know very well how to assume any position
ordered, bowing or otherwise, to help or please the abusive parent, partner,
etc or to ease the stressed system. It is not surprising that clients with
this teaching and history are quick to bow validating their life of humble
powerlessness and re-learning righteous victimhood. If the facilitator or
the parent representative needs them to bow, down they go. Whether a gentle
suggestion or a harsh demand, it is understood that the facilitator knows
the right and good thing to do. Being willing to do anything for her parents
(facilitator) she is eager and relieved to move into the bow; thus,
maintaining her very good girl stance. The family system also finds relief
and looks stronger maintaining its order and abusive process. If she began
the Constellation feeling mad or confused at her currently poor adult
relationship, she now feels peaceful and is rewarded for "not acting like a
victim (ie not being angry)" or being stuck in her story. She "understands"
now and is no longer hurt or angry. She has returned to her place as the
child - the very good humble child and the very soft gentle woman with whom
the parent/facilitator is well pleased; all "negative" emotions well
stuffed. A very touching Constellation has occurred. In my opinion, for this
client, the Bow is very detrimental.
However, for the woman who has found the ancestors who empower her
productive anger and encourage her to tell her story - bringing it out of
the shadows of shame, the Bow can be an extremely healing movement. This is
the woman who can say NO to bowing if it is not right for her; even at the
risk of being judged as "not there yet" or "trying to be too big". If she
cannot say NO, her YES is meaningless. She is after all bowing to her father
AND rapist. A Bow of acceptance of one's past and all that came before, a
place to acknowledge one's own field and completion as one prepares to turn,
is truly a healing space. This is the woman who says YES to all that is,
including her role as the one who says NO to ongoing abusive patterns. She
is the one who can hold the "guilt" of disrupting the system and maybe even
displeasing the facilitator. She is the one who can look at her father and
allow him to hold his guilt. She can bow to him in his true state as her
perpetrator and her father; not talking herself out of either truth. Her
children can witness her bow and learn to bow to her from their own place of
adult power; in their own time and space.
A bow is not always the strongest movement. It does not serve to assume the
ultimate goal for all should be the bow. As I see it, bowing can only be
completed from a place of adulthood and strength and when we respect the NO
as much as the Yes. For me, this is the health and beauty of the Bow. The
facilitator can only find her/his small place as witness, not director.
With Gratitude,
Carolyn
Carolyn Zahner, MSW, LISW
Program Chair, 2011 US Systemic Constellations Conference
513-697-0260
www.USConstellations.com
www.carolynzahner.com
From: Chris Walsh
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:01 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Bowing Note--Gesture Doesn't Equal or
Create Feeling
Hi all,
Isn't it amazing that the simple bow hold so much meaning and so much
subtlety! That is what makes it such a powerful constellation ritual. That
is also why we need to be wary of it becoming a trite formulaic empty ritual
- a mechanical procedure. When we really understand the bow as per the
discussion here that is much less likely. Personally I like to save the bow
for special moments. I am likely to use the bow in one out of three
constellations even though I use the principles embodied in the bow several
times in every constellation.
I would highly recommend Jakob Schneider's writing on the topic p148-151 in
his book "Family Constellations - Basic Principles and Practice. He
encourages a mindful approach that respects any resistance in the
representative. I find that phenomenologically exploring this place of
resistance often allows a healing movement to spontaneously appear.
I would also like to thank Liz for bringing to the attention of the group my
ideas about the connection between the bow, healthy shame and genuine
humility. This is a theme that I will continue to develop. It can only be
understood experientially when a person has a highly developed non
judgemental awareness. This is because the experience of dampening/shame
causes the mind to become foggy which makes awareness very difficult. Fake
humility is achieved by effort of will alone - an effort to be or appear to
be humble. Genuine humility is willing rather than wilful. It is willing to
listen to the emotion of dampening/shame. Because of the foggy mind this
listening is a quite evolved faculty that is only rarely mastered.
Another problem is that many people find the idea of healthy shame extremely
difficult to stomach as they or someone in their family system has been
chronically and toxically humiliated. So then it is good to remember that a
person needs to be able to stand up before they can bow. That is the first
move.
It is my belief that it is crucial for the advancement of this work that we
all understand how to cultivate healthy humility. It keeps us all grounded
(humus is Latin for ground) With a strong connection to the ground we can
stay simultaneously strong and flexible. We can respect other grounded
modalities while still claiming an appropriate place for constellation work.
We can explore all that constellation work has to offer without being
seduced by grandiosity. In other words we can still have fun and not take
ourselves too seriously J but still take ourselves seriously enough.
hasta la vista
Chris Walsh
Specialist Suite 6
Bromham Place
Behind The Melbourne Clinic
130 Church St, Richmond, 3121
(Melbourne, Australia)
ph: +61 (0)3 9487 4647
fax: +61 (0)3 9487 4646
web: <http://www.cwalsh.com.au/> www.cwalsh.com.au
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dan
Sent: Sunday, 21 August 2011 10:12 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Bowing Note--Gesture Doesn't Equal or
Create Feeling
Dear Robert and All,
This reminds me of the dramatic Constellation in Washington, DC where Bert
Hellinger punched a client who refused to bow to his father. The
Constellation had progressed to the point where the client, the rep for the
father, and Hellinger were standing at the front of the stage. Hellinger
directed the client to bow. The client did not move. After repeating the
instructions, Hellinger had the rep sit down and stood representing the
father. He repeated the instruction once more. When the client still balked,
Hellinger's fist shot out and stuck the client violently in the chest. I do
not clearly recall what happened, except for my fear that the two were about
to brawl on the stage. No further punches were thrown and the Constellation
ended soon after.
Personally, it was an important moment in my evolution as a facilitator, and
perhaps partially explains why I rarely instruct clients to bow at the end
of a Constellation.
Hellinger is the father of Family Constellations. Like many fathers, his
public outbursts have sometimes shamed or embarrassed his children. Some
emulate and strive to be like him. Others recoil and strive to disassociate
from him. Between those who bow and lavish him with praise and those who
criticize and move away, there is a tension that feels like sibling
conflict.
Dan
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> , Robert Grant <erebees@...>
wrote:
Dear Michael and Friends,
Michael your contribution to the discussion reminded me of some less
than helpful experiences with bowing. Notwithstanding the tremendous
healing potential of the bowing act unfortunately in Europe at least
it is still not uncommon to run into authoritarian facilitators who
may from time to time force the bow. As a general principle gentle
suggestion / invitation and not clinging to outcomes seems to me a
very important principle in the facilitation process, especially with
powerful acts like bowing.
Kind regards to all,
Robert
