I would like to contribute to this very interesting systemic subject, which on its own reveals a hidden paradox (as Thomas wondered about it) : "how perpetrators can be excluded by their own family system and on the same time to be aknowledged and honoured by them"...
They cannot. Perpetrators are excluding THEMSELVES from their own family system - by the making of their own act against the life of one or more human beings - and they are NOT honoured by anyone!
Perpetrators are only aknowledged by their own family: in this way, they are given permission by the other family members to leave the family system. Then, no family place is left behind empty, becuse in systemic terms, no one having actually acted (or even attempted to, as in the case of rape) to take away the life of another person belongs to his own family system. This is true, because the perpetrator acted against LIFE - so, reciprocaly, LIFE (which has been given as a gift to the perpetrator himself, being born in that family system) is withdrawing from the perpetrator's systemic identity the right for him to belong to his own family.
That is why, a new system is opening up for the perpetrator: that of the victim's... That is why the bonding between them two is so strong and so obvious, as we experience it in the Constellations. Now, the victim (and his family) should aknowledge ONLY the new place of loyalty within the boundaries of their own family system: that which is determined by the perpetrator-victim bonding and the belonging of the one to the other... In other words, members of both family systems are BOWING only to their FATE... never bowing to the perpetrator.
Thank you very much for the opportunity this wonderful group is giving me to contribute, with the above sharing, to our mutual systemic-thinking deepening.
With bery best regards,
From: "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@xxxxxxx>
Reply-To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: bow to perpretrators
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:14:03 -0000
> Although it is rare but some facilitators would ask clients
> (decendents of Perpretrators or victims ) to bow to perpretrators
e.g. Murderers.
>
> However, Bert Hellinger in the past used to let the perpretrators
> just left the system physically. In some books, Bert mentioned
that no one within in a family can be excluded except perpetrators.
>
> Anyone can comment on this issue?
>
> Simon HO
_____________________
Simon,
Thank you for asking these questions, as I have similar confusion
about the place of perpetrators in the system and how are they to be
excluded yet not excluded.
I have a further confusion about the perpetrators. What is the
difference between someone who murders a victim in the same family
and someone who murders a stranger from another family system?
I understand that a murderer from another family system becomes part
of the victim's family system. Does the murderer need to be
acknowledged and honored and then excluded by the victim's family
memebrs? What happens to the murderer's family system? How do they
not exclude the person who has clearly excluded himself by the act of
murder?
Thomas
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