Thank you Maria,
for initiating this conversation and the potential for "joining forces in
healing our most profound wounds".
Best wishes
Brigitte
On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Maria Goossens goossens.maria@xxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On this Easter morning I want to thank everyone for their supportive
reactions.
When we were confronted with suicide, it touch us in a very profound way.
So, whatever our profession is, I think that joining our efforts and shills
are the best prevention for suicide. Everyone has his own capacities,
backgrounds and modalities doing constellation work. Joining this forces
from all these different levels will lead to the best results, not only in
prevention of suicide, but also in healing our most profound wounds.
Happy Easter!
Mieke
Maria Goossens, MD
goossens.maria@xxxxxxxxxx
Op 4 apr. 2015, om 20:48 heeft David Gmail davidslade8@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> het volgende
geschreven:
I really appreciate this thread and this group. Thank you Meike for your
courage and your vulnerability.
I am learning so much about suicide that I did not know.
When my son was 7 or so he told us of a dream he had where he committed
suicide by jumping off the roof of a building, he did it because he was
unhappy with us as parents and wanted things to be different. The most
poignant part of the dream for him however was being "dead" and seeing us
on/from the other side and not being able to get back to us. I can hear in
this dream and our group how important constellations may be for souls who
have passed thus.
This conversation also reminds me of Francesca Mason Boring's practice of
asking for permission from the ancestors to do the work. of prayers for
guidance in what is best for all concerned. May I remember this practice
and may I (and all facilitators) be blessed with the courage and wisdom to
clearly know the answer.
I also wonder about the aftermath of your relationship with your colleague
Meike, it seems to me that this might be a place in need of healing and
forgiveness.
May all of our work be guided by true love and service. May we all have
the courage of humility and growth. May Divine Grace fill all our circles.
Thank you Chris Walsh for providing this space and a gentle and balanced
view.
Thank you to all my teachers.
In Miracles
David Slade
Arborist
Systemic Coach
Family Constellation Facilitator
On Apr 3, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Anni,
Best wishes for your continued recovery from that concussion. Comparing
notes is one of the most positive aspects of this forum.
Best wishes to all,
Robert
On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 4:25 AM, annimukkala@xxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Robert, some of the things you gleaned from my words were not what I
meant. I am still suffering from post concussion syndrome and I am having a
very difficult time focusing. Hence, the grammar errors and poor train of
thought and words.
I clearly mean that the facilitator like everyone in the room is guided
by a larger force and that the facilitator does know when he or she has
agreed internally to that. We will work poorly if we are not in agreement
with the larger force. The more the facilitator allows the field to move,
the less they 'control' and the deeper the constellation can be.
There is a fine line, however, when a facilitator clearly sees a
representative or another person in the circle taking a personal control
and expressing it aloud. These are the kinds of things that always must be
in the awareness of the facilitator. We must always be alert to all
movements and discern from where they come. Bert himself does this.
Also, I did want to bring up the contradictions that I see between health
and protective services and constellations. As Dan has said, these two work
on different planes or levels of consciousness. So there is in
constellation work an opening to a deeper unconscious layer of how we
connect to the world. We all know this.
I am not sure what you mean by your statement the "forecourt of hell is
paved with good intentions." But it is I think exactly what I am saying.
That a facilitator must not have intentions. A facilitator must allow the
field to move through them not to intend anything from it. Bert
also teaches this.
I am sorry my brain is still not well. But this is a vital
conversation. Let's keep talking. It moves into places where, like in
explaining constellations themselves, there is difficulty finding words.
Yours, Anni Mukkala-Stinn
---In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <erebees@...> wrote :
Hello Friend,
This discussion seems to be exposing a major fault line in the general
Constellation Community.
“We do not control anyone else's life. To do so is a great imposition on
their integrity as a human being.”
“The flow must be one that flows through the facilitator not through
another participant or protector figure.”
I do notice a degree of contradiction in these statements; a held back
desire to control (“great imposition if we do”), a justification (“the flow
must be one that flows through the facilitator”) and a denial (“we do not
control”). Of course doctors, pilots, bus drivers do have their passengers
lives in their hands every day.
Many regrettable events have transpired in human history in the name of
a greater force like god, nation, spirit and so on. In fact the forecourt
of hell is paved with good intentions, as we know.
On reflection one may realise that the facilitator is just an other
participant in the field. One of the most important safeguards in
constellations is listening to the whole field and respect for all
participants in the room. To impose a facilitator knows best regime is a
dangerous approach clearly demonstrated by this unfortunate suicide.
Best wishes to all,
Robert
On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 7:25 AM, annimukkala@... [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We do not control anyone else's life. To do so is a great imposition on
their integrity as a human being. I wonder, Maria, if you had in fact,
stepped in as the doctor, held the patient as your responsibility and then
that still there was the choice of suicide, that you may be asking that
your choice was in error? We want to have control. We always want life to
go on whether that choice is ours or not. Encounters with death always make
us ask whether we had a part in it or not. Sometimes death only grazes us
and we feel relief as though we controlled it.
The idea of being an underminer of the facilitator rings true with me.
The flow must be one that flows through the facilitator not through another
participant or protector figure. This is a complex construct that we do
need to examine. Also, the ability of the facilitator to allow the flow of
the healing energy that is love/God/source/ whatever you choose to call it.
We as facilitators must be very cued to our own ability to allow the source
to flow and move, that it is not us who moves these things.
Allowing someone else to take the role of the facilitator can be very
dangerous. We cannot know the others intention or agreement with the lack
of intention necessary to allow flow. We have life and death in
constellation work that is in a place we rarely see it so clearly. This can
and is a very vulnerable place to work. We can never be glib or lose the
quality of deep gentleness and kindness.
Spiritual growth and spiritual depth seem to me to be necessary qualities
of facilitators that we often do not emphasize enough. We have deep
responsibilities when we facilitate. We must always be aware of these. This
is a very important discussion.
That death has shown itself is not surprising. That we see it so little
often surprises me.
Love to you all, Anni
