Hello All.
Good to know that this topic stirs so many ... things !!! ...
However, there are two questions that come to me.
- What is your history, Mary?
- What truly disturbs you?
Something in itself, was revealed.
Your question reveals a deeper unease rooted in your system, the more that
your question about ethics or moral conscience.
Manifesting in our life and restless, echoes an old restlessness and quite
possibly generational.
The situation as described, contains many different variables and issues
that require a broader approach and deeper than the obvious context in the
email.
These reflections comprises very old questions about:
- Right wrong
- Power / not being able to
- Can / should I not give my life in place "to another"? ...
What is the real border between my freedom, because I know or have the
discernment of something that another does not, and my responsibility to
infer / intervene in the "fate" of another? ....
As far as extends, my free will? ...
I have free will or, I am free and responsible?
I have free will or I am free and responsible?
When you open the 'field' Systemic invariably see, we note, that we have no
free will on our vinculation to a Destination.
The only thing we can "operate", is a possibility.
And every possibility contains untold billions of variables and branches.
I suggest, Mary, who know best and what makes you "uncomfortable" with
everything that happened.
You may find "something" to help her deal with your discomfort.
After all, we all have to go dealing with what we have inherited and we
took, every single day.
Greetings and Hug.
Luís Viegas Moreira
2015-04-06 9:34 GMT+01:00 Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi all
I just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
Firstly Suicide can be an outcome of depression and not all depression is
systemic.
Secondly not all suicidality is a result of a depressive illness. Shame
has correctly been named as one other possible contributing factor. There
are many other possible contributing factors including systemic
entanglements.
Thirdly it is possible to work in a constellation with a person who
suffers depression in a safe way. I am a psychiatrist and I do that quite a
lot. It spends on the severity of the depression at the time. A severely
depressed person can't concentrate enough to benefit from workshop
participation. Moreover they are likely to be overwhelmed which causes more
distress and possible a worsening of their condition. However people with
mild to moderate depression often do well at a workshop facilitated by a
competent facilitator. After a person with severe depression is medically
treated and their symptoms have improved, they too can often benefit.
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9487 4647
www.cwalsh.com.au
On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 7:28 AM, bizdentitiz@xxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Suicide is a complication of Depression!!!!
On Thursday, April 2, 2015 11:25 PM, "annimukkala@xxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk]" <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We do not control anyone else's life. To do so is a great imposition on
their integrity as a human being. I wonder, Maria, if you had in fact,
stepped in as the doctor, held the patient as your responsibility and then
that still there was the choice of suicide, that you may be asking that
your choice was in error? We want to have control. We always want life to
go on whether that choice is ours or not. Encounters with death always make
us ask whether we had a part in it or not. Sometimes death only grazes us
and we feel relief as though we controlled it.
The idea of being an underminer of the facilitator rings true with me.
The flow must be one that flows through the facilitator not through another
participant or protector figure. This is a complex construct that we do
need to examine. Also, the ability of the facilitator to allow the flow of
the healing energy that is love/God/source/ whatever you choose to call it.
We as facilitators must be very cued to our own ability to allow the source
to flow and move, that it is not us who moves these things.
Allowing someone else to take the role of the facilitator can be very
dangerous. We cannot know the others intention or agreement with the lack
of intention necessary to allow flow. We have life and death in
constellation work that is in a place we rarely see it so clearly. This can
and is a very vulnerable place to work. We can never be glib or lose the
quality of deep gentleness and kindness.
Spiritual growth and spiritual depth seem to me to be necessary qualities
of facilitators that we often do not emphasize enough. We have deep
responsibilities when we facilitate. We must always be aware of these. This
is a very important discussion.
That death has shown itself is not surprising. That we see it so little
often surprises me.
Love to you all, Anni
