....even ekectrobs behave differently when observed
physicists found out....
Bizden
1 Ağu 2013 tarihinde 17:28 saatinde, Hania Gorski <haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx>
şunları yazdı:
Thanks Rosalba for this point!
And if I may add something - what you're stating is not only matter of
beliefs of participants/observers influencing experiment or phenomena but
also a matter of consciousness of participants.
Consciousness and belief are from the same family but are not exactly the
same.
there are researches about how consciousness of a researcher (or an
experimentator) influences results - in a dimension of material results.
Unfortunately i don't recollect details right now but it was about how an
observer through looking through microscope lenses was influencing cells -
like communicating with them only by looking.
And Bruce Lipton, mentioned here some time ago - with his great
presentation about the biology of belief (the same title available on
Youtube).
Hania Gorski, M.Psych.*, *Melbourne
ph. (+61) 400 225 357
www.constellationseries.wordpress.com
***The world, I’ve come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake. We
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,
there’s a crack, and so we learn that underneath us — is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce **
On 1 August 2013 23:00, Rosalba Stocco <rstocco@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear All,
Interesting, I agree with Vinay, and Sadhana…
I know at another level that the "scream" is real. In our world, many
people want the "hard science" to prove what is "known".
What I admire about Bert Hellinger is that he just does what he does. He
has no need to defend or explain, he just teaches what he "knows". It is
also my understanding that he is not concerned with other findings and
there is not necessarily disagreement about other findings.
It is good to question an authority on any subject because that is how we
discovered that the world is not flat. What we need to remember is that
all work builds on what was done previously. Without the work that was
done previously, we would not be where we are today.
Even the scientists disagree and find different results.
I am reminded of a documentary I watched of two scientists. One believed
in ESP and the other did not. They had found they had different results
for the same research. So they did an experiment together and what did
they find?
They found that the result depended on who was running the experiment.
When the scientist who believed in ESP ran the experiment, there were more
incidences that implied ESP and when it was the scientist who did not
believe in ESP ran the experiment there were less incidences that implied
ESP was unlikely.
Naturally someone who does not believe in the movement of the spirit is
unlikely to participate or have any experiences.
So is it because the facilitator and most of the participants believe in
this work, that something unfolds?
I am interested in your thoughts, in how much we as facilitators and
observers dictate the unfolding of a constellation???
Rosalba
http://podroom.a2zen.fm/podcasts/rosalba-stocco
"Success: To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent
people and the affection of children, to appreciate beauty, to find the
best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy
child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition, to know even one
life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have
succeeded. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882) American Essayist & Poet
Rosalba Stocco, msw, rsw
34 Neeve Street
Guelph, ON
N1H 4C1
519 827 0528
rstocco@xxxxxx
www.rosalbastocco.com
www.guelphfamilyconstellations.com
www.a2zen.fm
www.rosalbastocco.com
LIVE Wednesdays 78pm ET/7CT/6MT/5PT
On 2013-08-01, at 6:17 AM, Kay Needham <familyconstellationinfo@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Dear Vinay..........and talks with an old rancher. He tells the rancher, "I need to inspect
A Department of Water Resources representative stops at a Texas ranch
your ranch for your water allocation."
Federal Government with me.. See this card? This card means I am allowed to
The old rancher says, "Okay, but don't go in that field over there."
The Water representative says, "Mister, I have the authority of the
go WHEREVER I WISH on any agricultural land. No questions asked or
answered. Have I made myself clear? Do you understand?"
for his life. And close behind is the rancher's bull. The bull is gaining
The old rancher nods politely and goes about his chores.
Later, the old rancher hears loud screams and sees the Water Rep running
with every step.
his tools, runs to the fence and yells at the top of his lungs.....
The Rep is clearly terrified, so the old rancher immediately throws down
cards nor do you need to show them. Transparency and responsability is
"Your card! Show him your card!"
Vinay my perspective is that if you are an authority you don't need any
personal and becomes luminous. The kind of authority that supports growth
triggers and transfers awakening. This is always a luminous and silent
affair where the inner light of the subject clicks on. This authority has
an associated joy and instant recognition in the small beyond facts and
conscience itself. It is however reliant upon receptivity not reactivity.
It is a fact that facts change moment by moment. I think the only authority
is to live and enjoy that.
where he posits abortions took place, and makes an association with that
Kind regards
Sadhana
________________________________
From: Steve Vinay Gunther <spirited@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:53 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] The silent scream
I was just watching a video of Hellinger in Taiwan. He works with a case
and the presenting issue of cancer.
who after performing many thousands of abortions, made a movie using
He compares abortion to murder, and cites the work of Bernard Nathanson,
ultrasound footage of fetuses that were about to be aborted. He 'showed'
the fetus moving away from the instrument and 'screaming'.
problematic and difficult dynamic in family systems, and certainly
Now, I subscribe to the general constellation view of abortion, as a
something that creates subsequent problems.
its not quite as scientifically valid as it is emotionally impactful. It
But I do wonder about his use of this reference. I researched it, and
was critiqued for the manipulation of the film images, and for the
authoritative 'scientific' pronouncements and interpretations which are not
necessarily validated by the data.
And the 'scream' is could also be a common movement that foetuses make,
So for instance, brain neurons do not exist prior to 4 weeks in utero.
yawning for instance.
rich experiential life, closely connected of course to the mother's state
Now, just because they don't have neurons, I believe they still have a
of being.
they have a strong interpretive element which speaks with authority not
But I don't like it when things are presented as solid science, when
necessarily rigourous…even if I agree with the conclusions!
'authority', and then that continues to become an authoritative 'fact'. I
Part of the effect is another authority- Hellinger - quotes the original
think that transparency and responsibility are important in such
communications….
I am interested in other peoples' perspectives on this.
Vinay
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
