Beautifully said, Robert. Thank you for framing it in this way and allowing
for the sensitivity and compassion of the facilitator to bring in all
elements to the situation of why the abortion is happening. There are many
women who carry the guilt in the subconscious of being a killer, even if
society and others have not judged her for it. So sometimes, it is
important to acknowledge that feeling in order for all parties to come to
rest, but using gentler terms. However, I would only resort to that if it is
difficult to move the constellation forward.
In gratitude,
Heather
-----Original Message-----
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Grant
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 5:01 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] The silent scream
Hi Vinay, Thomas and All,
"Using the term murder referring to abortion seems to me to be taking a
strong moral position with implied judgement, condemnation and punishment.
All life is predicated on killing. A head of lettuce gives its life when we
eat it."
This brings us I believe to a core issue in constellations; that is the role
of the facilitator. I must admit feeling uneasy every time I witness
facilitators giving authoritarian interpretations, directions, opinions,
judgements and theoretical explanations during a constellation.
To me the challenge is to facilitate for all who are present in the field.
And so from the point of the aborting woman it might be supportive to
consider that indeed all life is predicated on killing and that the
facilitator will not re-traumatise her through implied guilt, judgements and
condemnation.
From the point of the foetus on the verge of being killed, all life is
predicated on killing may not be any consolation. It might be more
appropriate to fight, to condemn, to resist, to rage, to scream high murder.
They all have their places and the facilitator need not take any sides -
just provide space and support.
Best wishes,
Robert
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Thomas Bryson <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Vinay.
Ursula and I have been talking lately about the perspectives of
Humberto Maturana expressed in his book, 'From being to doing'
available from Carl-Auer. I think he is a gem.
He says, 'We believe that we know, without knowing that we are believing.'
Another is so obvious as to be overlooked, 'All observations are made
by an observer.' Regardless of how objective something appears, there
is no escape from the subjective perspective.
Film images are always subject to the perspectives and intentions of
the camera person, editor and film maker. A pejorative title like 'The
silent scream' states the intended emotional effect of the film before
it has been viewed.
Using the term murder referring to abortion seems to me to be taking a
strong moral position with implied judgement, condemnation and punishment.
All life is predicated on killing. A head of lettuce gives its life
when we eat it.
It may be tempting to create a one-to-one correspondence between
abortion and cancer, but I am more willing to believe that physical
symptoms are complex and often have multiple causes, sometimes from
very deep in the past of the system.
Thomas
On Aug 1, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Steve Vinay Gunther
<spirited@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I was just watching a video of Hellinger in Taiwan. He works with awhere he posits abortions took place, and makes an association with
case
that and the presenting issue of cancer.
who after performing many thousands of abortions, made a movie using
He compares abortion to murder, and cites the work of Bernard
Nathanson,
ultrasound footage of fetuses that were about to be aborted. He 'showed'
the fetus moving away from the instrument and 'screaming'.
problematic and difficult dynamic in family systems, and certainly
Now, I subscribe to the general constellation view of abortion, as a
something that creates subsequent problems.
its not quite as scientifically valid as it is emotionally impactful.
But I do wonder about his use of this reference. I researched it,
and
It was critiqued for the manipulation of the film images, and for the
authoritative 'scientific' pronouncements and interpretations which
are not necessarily validated by the data.
And the 'scream' is could also be a common movement that foetuses
So for instance, brain neurons do not exist prior to 4 weeks in utero.
make, yawning for instance.
rich experiential life, closely connected of course to the mother's
Now, just because they don't have neurons, I believe they still have
a
state of being.
they have a strong interpretive element which speaks with authority
But I don't like it when things are presented as solid science, when
not necessarily rigourous.even if I agree with the conclusions!
'authority', and then that continues to become an authoritative
Part of the effect is another authority- Hellinger - quotes the
original
'fact'. I think that transparency and responsibility are important in
such communications..
I am interested in other peoples' perspectives on this.
Vinay
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