Hi Vinay, Thomas and All,
"Using the term murder referring to abortion seems to me to be taking a
strong moral position with implied judgement, condemnation and punishment.
All life is predicated on killing. A head of lettuce gives its life when we
eat it."
This brings us I believe to a core issue in constellations; that is the
role of the facilitator. I must admit feeling uneasy every time I witness
facilitators giving authoritarian interpretations, directions, opinions,
judgements and theoretical explanations during a constellation.
To me the challenge is to facilitate for all who are present in the field.
And so from the point of the aborting woman it might be supportive to
consider that indeed all life is predicated on killing and that the
facilitator will not re-traumatise her through implied guilt, judgements
and condemnation.
From the point of the foetus on the verge of being killed, all life is
predicated on killing may not be any consolation. It might be more
appropriate to fight, to condemn, to resist, to rage, to scream high
murder. They all have their places and the facilitator need not take any
sides - just provide space and support.
Best wishes,
Robert
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Thomas Bryson <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Vinay.
Ursula and I have been talking lately about the perspectives of Humberto
Maturana expressed in his book, 'From being to doing' available from
Carl-Auer. I think he is a gem.
He says, 'We believe that we know, without knowing that we are believing.'
Another is so obvious as to be overlooked, 'All observations are made by
an observer.' Regardless of how objective something appears, there is no
escape from the subjective perspective.
Film images are always subject to the perspectives and intentions of the
camera person, editor and film maker. A pejorative title like 'The silent
scream' states the intended emotional effect of the film before it has been
viewed.
Using the term murder referring to abortion seems to me to be taking a
strong moral position with implied judgement, condemnation and punishment.
All life is predicated on killing. A head of lettuce gives its life when we
eat it.
It may be tempting to create a one-to-one correspondence between abortion
and cancer, but I am more willing to believe that physical symptoms are
complex and often have multiple causes, sometimes from very deep in the
past of the system.
Thomas
On Aug 1, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Steve Vinay Gunther <spirited@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I was just watching a video of Hellinger in Taiwan. He works with a casewhere he posits abortions took place, and makes an association with that
and the presenting issue of cancer.
who after performing many thousands of abortions, made a movie using
He compares abortion to murder, and cites the work of Bernard Nathanson,
ultrasound footage of fetuses that were about to be aborted. He 'showed'
the fetus moving away from the instrument and 'screaming'.
problematic and difficult dynamic in family systems, and certainly
Now, I subscribe to the general constellation view of abortion, as a
something that creates subsequent problems.
its not quite as scientifically valid as it is emotionally impactful. It
But I do wonder about his use of this reference. I researched it, and
was critiqued for the manipulation of the film images, and for the
authoritative 'scientific' pronouncements and interpretations which are not
necessarily validated by the data.
And the 'scream' is could also be a common movement that foetuses make,
So for instance, brain neurons do not exist prior to 4 weeks in utero.
yawning for instance.
rich experiential life, closely connected of course to the mother's state
Now, just because they don't have neurons, I believe they still have a
of being.
they have a strong interpretive element which speaks with authority not
But I don't like it when things are presented as solid science, when
necessarily rigourous even if I agree with the conclusions!
'authority', and then that continues to become an authoritative 'fact'. I
Part of the effect is another authority- Hellinger - quotes the original
think that transparency and responsibility are important in such
communications .
I am interested in other peoples' perspectives on this.
Vinay
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