Hello everyone, Regarding the possible connection between rape and incest one
must always be working on the particular dynamic that presents itself, not on a
dynamic that has presented prior to. To contrast Stephan's observation, I have
worked with persons where incest is the apparent result of an ancesstral rape.
In this particular dynamic the ancestor bore a child from the rape and this
precipitated a dynamic where incest became the re-balancing family response. I
believe that we must in each case, be aware of what is this particular
situation and not rely on past experience nor on experience of other
facilitators. Addressing the particular situation can only be done with regard
to what presents during the constellation.
I also would like to suggest that if a facilitator approaches a dynamic such as
rape and experiences fear, there is an ethical need for that facilitator to
examine his or her own fear before being able to proceed with a
"disinterested"(unbiased) perspective toward the entire dynamic in a
constellation.
The single thing that most concerns me when working with sexual trauma
survivors is that the person is not in any way re-traumatized. If we approach
the constellation from a place where we as facilitators feel fear, then we must
relinquish some of our need to help. We have moral obligations to be of
service that is rooted in a loving landscape.
If we feel a need to help when we ourselves need help, then we must first
address our own need.
With regard to specific constellation on rape, I have in the past, set up a
representative for the perpetrator energy rather than for the perpetrator. When
the victim found her own place in her family system the perpetrator energy
gently withdrew. In this particular instance, a trial was pending and it was
inappropriate on many levels to place an specific representative for the
perpetrator. I offer this only because there are many ways to approach these
things. We must allow our inner sense of what is needed at that particular
moment to provide direction. Sometimes a person comes for a specific issue
such as sexual assault and there are many other constellations that come up
first with regards to the place in the family. I find that seldom do I work
with the trauma first. Other matters appear to take precedent.
Lastly, with regard to whether sexual assault is in constellations equivalent
to murder, I do not see this. However, the system seems to be affected deeply
by it. There are similarities perhaps. When the individual finds his or her
place in their own family system the perpetrator energy seems to dissipate. It
becomes less. Usually this is accompanied by its retreat. From this place
then there comes a greater peace in the individual.
Sometimes the victim even notices some of their own perpetrator energy after
these movements. This a a healthy balance. We all have perpetrator energy in
some way and to see it in addition to our victim energy is a place of balance.
Thank you all for this conversation. I always seem to write a lot. It is my
nature. I find it brings things to fruition to speak them.
Have a wonderful weekend. Love to you all, Anni Mukkala Stinn
--- In ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Stephan Hausner <stephan.hausner@...>
wrote:
Dear all,
my experience in working of victims of sexual abuse is that the rape is
often a shifted incest, means that when you look into the families of
origin of the victims you often find an incestuous dynamic. (the mother
is somehow bonded and drawn out of the system and the daughter gets on
her position). If there is sexual abuse, then its often a shift in the
perpetrator, means instead of the father a rapist for example is getting
on "his place".
In consequence of this there a many aspects: on one side there is the
personal trauma and on the other side there is the aspect related to the
dynamic in the family of origin, means that also regarding rape there is
a responsability to be given back to the parents ...
I wrote about this in my book: "Even if it costs me my life" in the
chapter: Illness and incestuous dynamic, where are a few cases related
to these theme
I hope I could make my point clear
warm regards
Stephan
Am 03.02.2012 22:36, schrieb anngwyn@...:
Hello Ellen,
Every case is different and yes, rape can impact the system and also for
subsequent generations. SCW offers many options for healing this
within our
systemic understanding of victim/perpetrator dynamics. One of the most
informative sessions on this topic was done by Johannes B. Schmidt in
Hamburg and he writes about this in a article in " Sexual Abuse Studies "
Systemic Solutions Bulletin ,No.2, 2001, p.39. This is also summarized
in my book
A Question of Balance: A Systemic Approach to Understanding and Resolving
Trauma, in the chapter on Victim/Perpetrator Dynamics, pp. 152-154.
John L.
Payne's books also expand the topic to include issues of gender and
gender
identification.
Warm Regards,
Anngwyn
In a message dated 2/3/2012 2:06:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
epillard@... <mailto:epillard%40nvbell.net> writes:
Thank you, Anngwyn, for your information on treating rape trauma. And
thank you, Michael, for your very thoughtful exploration of words and
their
meaning.
When I read the early postings on rape I had an embodied negative
response
to the discussion. As a woman and a trained FC facilitator I processed
these feelings and found useful information in the discussion. But I
am left
with the question "Does rape effect the family soul past, present or
future
and how can you heal that?"
Ellen Pillard MSW
Reno, NV
email: _epillard@... <mailto:_epillard%40nvbell.net>_
(mailto:epillard@... ;<mailto:epillard%40nvbell.net>)
________________________________
From: Michael Reddy <_michael@...
<mailto:_michael%40reddyworks.com>_
(mailto:michael@... ;<mailto:michael%40reddyworks.com>) >
To: "ConstellationTalk@yahoogroups. com"
<_ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:_ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>_
(mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>) >
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Transcending Forgiveness through
Acceptance by Gary Stuart
Dear Gary, and All,
It is typical of me that, despite admiring, understanding, and
agreeing with your eloquent essay on Forgiveness versus Acceptance--I
remain troubled by what seems to be a discrepancy between ordinary
usage of US English and a somewhat narrower meaning that seems to take
over in constellation work. So first of all, thank you for posting
the essay, and then, here's what comes up for me.
In general, words have a number of senses, or primary meanings. It is
always risky to assume too quickly that we know which one or more are
intended when a person utters a sound or scratches marks on a page.
In particular, the word "forgive" has at least three relevant uses in
the perpetrator-victim context.
FORGIVE1 <to pardon a person for an offense> "I forgive you for
stealing my wallet"
FORGIVE2 <to give up all claim to restitution or repayment> "I
forgave that debt already"
FORGIVE3 <to cease to feel resentment against> "It's generally best
to forgive your enemies"
To my mind, while FORGIVE1 <pardon> falls clearly into the
problematic, self-important stance we constellators speak of, FORGIVE2
slips away from it, and FORGIVE3 <let go resentment> comes very close
to what we mean by "acceptance."
People may say, well, Michael is being too logical and "left-brained"
here. But in fact, the whole re-characterization of "forgiveness" in
terms of systemic hierarchy, self-importance, and doubling of burden
on the victim requires, even though true, quite a bit of "left brain"
work to grasp. Especially for someone used to the various, more
loosely employed meanings normally associated with "forgive."
I guess there are two points here perhaps worth considering. First,
this goes back to earlier discussions here about our community using
common terms somewhat preemptively in ways that are quite contrary to
everyday usage. Do we get in our own way by not showing more respect
for how much the larger language community is likely to be confused by
this? Can we not talk about re-languaging without questions being
raised about understanding and group loyalty?
And second, if a client in a constellation spontaneously says "Oh, I
do forgive you" to a perpetrator, I at least want to be listening as
carefully as I can for which nuance (either FORGIVE1 <pardon> or
FORGIVE3 <let go resentment>, or some combination) is intended.
Because it seems to me there are occasions when this statement
signifies very much the acceptance we wish to foster, and others where
it resonates with the self importance we want to discourage. Maybe
the client means simply, "You know what, I accept that you did this
and am not holding on to it." And even if it's the problematic
FORGIVE1 <pardon> that's intended, I'd still be somewhat careful about
launching into a whole left-brain explanation of the distinction in
the middle of a constellation. Maybe I would--or maybe I'd let it
pass and talk about it later. A lot would depend.
I haven't had time to look into this, but I keep wondering of some of
these confusing usages come from the different senses and nuances
involved with the original German words. In general, from language to
language, word senses and their nuances are not grouped around words
in the same ways at all.
Best,
Michael
Michael Reddy, PhD, CPC, ELI-MP
_michael@... <mailto:_michael%40reddyworks.com>_
(mailto:michael@... ;<mailto:michael%40reddyworks.com>)
www.reddyworks.com
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--
Buch-Cover: Auch wenn es mich das Leben kostet
<http://www.stephan-hausner.de/45.0.html>
*Stephan Hausner:*
*Auch wenn es mich das Leben kostet!*
Systemaufstellungen bei schweren Krankheiten und lang anhaltenden Symptomen
Mit einem Vorwort von Dr. med. Gunthard Weber
253 Seiten, Kt 2008, Carl-Auer-Verlag
ISBN 978-89670-653-9
* English Edition: GestaltPress
<http://www.amazon.com/Even-Costs-Me-Life-Constellations/dp/0415898056/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305576797&sr=8-2>
* EdiciónEspanol: www.almalepik.com <http://www.almalepik.com>,Buenos
Aires
Distribution en Espana: www.tarahumaralibros.com
<http://www.tarahumaralibros.com>
* Nederlands:www.hetnoorderlicht.com <http://www.hetnoorderlicht.com/>
, Groningen
* Portugues: www.pensamento-cultrix.com.br
<http://www.pensamento-cultrix.com.br/>
* RussianEdition: www.mostik.org <http://www.mostik.org/publ.php>
*Praxis für Systemische Medizin*
Stephan Hausner
Unterberg 1
83313 Siegsdorf
Tel: 08662-661288
Fax: 08662-661299
eMail: office@... <mailto:office@...>
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