-------------- Original message from "Lori Castner" <loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>: --------------


> Monica and others,
>
> I did not read Cindy's message as speaking for all of us, and the message I
> am posting now speaks only for me. But in reality, all of our comments on
> this matter are totally irrelevant because the powers that be at Bookshare
> have already made the decisions: publisher quality books will replace books
> in the collection (unless some with pictcture descriptions can be
> preserved), and more and more publishers will be providing books (which is
> great as long as people don't mind the character of Bookshare changing)..
>
> I initially wrote my comments below last evening but put them in a draft
> message as I believed they should sit for a while, but they do voice my
> concerns.
>
> I'm going to say the first negative thing I've said on this list.
>
> All the points made about loss of chart table and poetry formatting are
> crucial concerns.
>
> In addition, the loss of very wonderful detailed picture descriptions
> provided by volunteers mainly in children's books but also in some adult
> books is irreplaceable. I grew up without picture descriptions in my books
> and their availability to blind children and adults today through bookshare
> books is a true marvel.
>
> But, here is the negative part. I am very disappointed to know that the
> hard work of many submitters and validators will be simply lost as publisher
> books become a more prominent part of Bookshare. Hours and hours of work
> simply gone; frankly, it feels like a corpporation taking over a small
> company.
>
> I am sure many will disagree with me, but as Bookshare progresses in this
> direction the work of volunteers will be less needed and the voice of those
> who scann/submit books to shape the collection will become less important.
>
> From what I know of the formation of Bookshare, it was originally a vehicle
> for many to submit books they had scanned so that other individuals could
> access them. It was a grassroots movement sort of; as I see it, in a few
> years it will no longer be that.
>
> True; we will have access to many more books, but users will have far less
> say and volunteers will have far less work and value.
>
> Mind you, Bookshare will still be a good and worthwhile source of books,
> but it won't be the same source. I may be alone in this concern, and maybe
> I am wrong, but I doubt it.
>
> Cat Lover Lori
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paula and James Muysenberg"
> To: "Bkvol"
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:35 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submissions
>
>
> > these books contain charts or diagrams. I try to either format the charts
> > so
> > they will be understandable, keeping in mind that the Bookshare stripper
> > removes tabs, or I put an explanation in brackets. I'm sure other
> > submitters
> > do similar things, all of which would be lost when the book is replaced.
> > For the most part, I'm excited about publishers donating books to
> > Bookshare, but I really think these other issues need to be addressed. I'm
> > concerned that none of this seems to have been taken in consideration,
> > when
> > the contract with publishers was drawn up.
> > The loss of picture descriptions in children's books especially
> > troubles
> > me, since some children's books don't
> > make much sense without the pictures. When our oldest daughter was a
> > toddler, someone gave us a couple of Frances books. The books never
> > mention
> > that Frances and her family are bears, and since I couldn't see the
> > pictures, it was years before I found that out. I also didn't know for the
> > longest that Clifferd is a huge, red dog. Oh the gaps that will be left in
> > our
> > education, without picture descriptions!
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> >
> > Paula
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mayrie ReNae"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 5:33 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submissions
> >
> >
> >> Hi Carrie and Pavi,
> >>
> >> All that you say here I understand completely. There are, however,
> >> a couple of cases in which replacing a truly excellent copy of a book
> >> scanned and validated by conscientious volunteers would be, in my
> >> opinion,
> >> harmful to the Bookshare collection. Children's books that have had
> > picture
> >> descriptions and handwritten pages typed in by volunteers, and books of
> >> poetry in which stanzas have been preserved would be of lower quality
> >> from
> >> the publishers. Obviously copies of childrens' books from the publisher
> >> will not include picture descriptions. If handwriting is preserved in
> >> the
> >> text of publisher quality books as handwriting, , no screen reader will
> > read
> >> that. And finally, poetry that is not protected from having all of its
> >> stanzas and lines run together is no longer poetry, but prose, which it
> > was
> >> not intended to be.
> >>
> >> I understand that to keep your contract with publishers, you must
> >> keep only their copies of books. That can't probably be changed. I do
> >> think it is important to note that there will be in some few cases, some
> >> important things lost by removing scanned copies of books from the
> > Bookshare
> >> collection. I doubt that there is anything that can be done. But this
> >> is
> > a
> >> sad situation to me.
> >>
> >> I would suggest that members grab any books whose quality might
> >> suffer in ways that I have noted, and others that I haven't thought of,
> > that
> >> they want to read that might be replaced by publisher quality books now
> >> before they are replaced.
> >>
> >> Mayrie
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pavi Mehta
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 2:20 PM
> >> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc: Lisa Friendly
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Bookshare & PQ submissions
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> In the light of recent discussions on the list regarding Publisher
> >> quality
> >> submissions we wanted to send an email to all of you to clarify
> > Bookshare's
> >> position on this.
> >>
> >> While volunteers continue to be our primary source of books being put
> >> into
> >> the collection, upgrading books already in the collection continues to be
> >> one of Bookshare's primary goals. Many volunteers have contributed
> >> thousands of hours in improving books in the collection, and they do a
> > great
> >> job! But publishers have resources that allow them to create perfect
> > copies
> >> of books. Bookshare would like every single book in the collection to be
> >> absolutely perfect, and this goal actually might be achievable if we can
> >> convince publishers to donate e-book versions of their books. Many of the
> >> Publisher Quality books that we receive are in perfect condition, but not
> >> quite all at this point, as the technology is evolving in the publishing
> >> industry.
> >>
> >> We need to encourage publishers to donate their books, since eventually
> > they
> >> will be donating ONLY perfect books. And wouldn't that be wonderful?
> > Imagine
> >> every single book in the collection being perfect! Currently it's a goal,
> >> but someday, maybe not too far away, it might be possible to achieve it.
> >> We know that thousands of volunteers have contributed hundreds of
> > thousands
> >> of hours of effort in putting books into the collection, and we
> > acknowledge
> >> that the vast majority of our books are in excellent condition. But
> >> upgrading our books will always be a primary goal, and to that end, we
> > will
> >> replace current books with publisher quality books. It is also very
> >> important for us to let our volunteer community know that this
> >> replacement
> >> policy is in fact a requirement of the contracts that we sign with the
> >> publishing houses.
> >>
> >> To the extent possible, we will also inform the volunteers of the books
> > that
> >> publishers will be sending us, so as to not duplicate efforts. With every
> >> batch of books that publishers send us, there are software changes
> > required
> >> in our processing of their books, so the books are currently being added
> > to
> >> the collection in at a fairly slow trickle. But we are pretty optimistic
> >> that in the near future, the speed of donating books and processing them
> >> will increase. Our mandate from the US Department of Education is to put
> >> 100,000 new books into the collection in 5 years. We have no doubt that
> >> we
> >> will meet that goal, especially with all the Publisher Quality books that
> > we
> >> are being given by the forward-thinking publishers who are so generous
> > with
> >> their time, efforts and books. Huge thanks to O'Reilly, HarperCollins,
> >> Scholastic, and other publishing houses and to all of you as we continue
> > to
> >> grow the collection as a team.
> >>
> >>
> >> Carrie Karnos and Pavi Mehta
> >> Bookshare.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature database 3338 (20080807) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Monica Willyard"
> To:
> Cc: "Pavi Mehta" ; "Lisa Friendly"
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:08 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submission
>
>
> > Hi, Cindy. No one likes to have their time wasted or see what they
> > worked on replaced. Having said that, a large number of books
> > currently in the collection are nowhere near perfect. Keeping them for
> > the sake of preserving someone's time isn't fair to the members of
> > Bookshare both because it would create confusion when someone is
> > searching for books and because we don't enjoy reading messed up books
> > unless we have no other choice. Even books rated excellent aren't
> > usually letter perfect, and a significant number have some serious
> > issues.
> >
> > Cindy, you have the ability to grab a book from your library or
> > bookstore and read it whenever you want to. You never have to worry
> > about scannos, and you don't have the distraction of hearing non-words
> > spoken in almost every paragraph. Yet you are the loudest voice asking
> > for Bookshare to keep scanned books when a publisher-quality book is
> > available. Yes, you may validate carefully from the print copy, and
> > that's wonderful. You are not in the majority though, and Bookshare
> > can't just keep books processed by you while getting rid of everyone
> > else's. All of us here have put our money, time, and energy into
> > preparing books for people to read. Yet we do this knowing that
> > someone could come along and do a BSO of our book at any time. In this
> > case, the publisher is doing a BSO, and who is more qualified to
> > provide it than the publisher?
> >
> > You send your emails copied to Lisa and Pavi and would seem to speak
> > for us. You don't speak for many of us because you don't have any
> > concept of what it's like to have scanned books as your only source
> > for reading material. If Bookshare had a magic button where they could
> > replace every book with a perfect publisher quality version, I would
> > celebrate and send the staff some champagne. There are a small number
> > of books with hand-written picture descriptions that might be
> > replaced, and you could contact Bookshare about those. There are
> > literally thousands of books in the Bookshare collection that are
> > barely legible right now. They would become a pleasure to read if
> > replaced. Teachers want extremely clean scans for their students to
> > read. The PQ books provide that and benefit adult readers as well. I
> > just hope they will expand the program and that other publishers will
> > work with Bookshare in the future.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Monica Willyard
> > Visit my blog at http://www.scannersguild.com
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>