[duxuser] Re: Duxbury and JAWS
- From: "Dawes, Stephen" <Stephen.Dawes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:11:37 -0700
Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised!
Once again, it is amazing how the messenger is being shot down! My message
clearly pointed out that before you say that the problem is caused by, as you
put it, "combined assistive technology" that you make sure that is indeed the
actual problem. There was no lecturing in my message, but instead a suggested
method of how to. again as you put it, "help each other here."
As to "I suggest that in future, fingers could be best used to add to the
discussion instead of pointing at something that's not being singled out in the
first place." I simply ask, how can my suggesting a method of making sure that
the problem is actually caused by what it is believed to be caused by, , not
adding to the discussion.
In an off-line discussion with a member of the list, clarifying of the initial
question posted to this list was sent to me, without my prompting. With a
follow-up to my reply that said, "I'm on a server here but my friend who was
having trouble with jaws not reading text in Duxbury was running absolutely
nothing else at the time. My experience
with tech support has been: "If I'm not seeing this problem on my computer,
then it must be something you are doing wrong. Thanks for your advice." Is
this saying that my posting to this list was NOT HELPFUL!
Although I do not post to this list on a regular bases, my experience in the
past is, that when ever I have asked for information, it has been ignored. Now
when I post what I believe to be useful for others, I get shot down. Well, to
that I say, WHO NEED LISTS LIKE THIS IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE TREATED AS I HAVE
BEEN!
Finally! Deborah, you attack me, the messenger, by writing "I, for one, have
too much to do to spend my time pointing fingers and lecturing anybody." I ask
you, how helpful is this type of message in the discussion for the solving of
the problem. Helping everyone with a problem that comes to the list is, and
hopefully always will be, the heart and soul of subject orientated mail list.
Finger pointing is frowned upon. Why not practice what you preach, and provide
helpful ideas to solving the problem instead of a diatribe lecturing me on how
to provide helpful advice that I believed, and apparently rightly so, to be
helpful in the solving of this problem. I would hope that advice that can
extend beyond the solving of one problem would be welcomed and not criticized.
NOVEL CONCEPT! But then, All I got from your message is that you don't have
time to point fingers, but you certainly have the time to chastise someone who
tries to provide problem solving methods that are obviously not part of the
problem identification process that you use.
Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
Web Business Office #8300 | Fax: (403) 268-6423
PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@xxxxxxxxxx
Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
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Thank you for your attention and co-operation.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deborah Barnes [mailto:dbarnes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 2003 January 08 9:30 AM
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: Duxbury and JAWS
>
>
> Stephen, I don't think anyone here was pointing fingers at
> anyone but merely
> stating their experiences. I, for one, have too much to do
> to spend my time
> pointing fingers and lecturing anybody. Most of us were just
> trying to say
> that we've had these problems so no one has been alone in
> their problems and
> we all help each other here.
>
> I myself have had wonderful contacts with JAWS and Duxbury support and
> _obviously, any problem with a computer can be caused by
> anything but our
> discussion was merely to indicate specific problems we were having--as
> requested--so that a handle could be gotten on what was
> happening with the
> combined assistive technology. I suggest that in future,
> fingers could be
> best used to add to the discussion instead of pointing at
> something that's
> not being singled out in the first place.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf Of Dawes, Stephen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:21 PM
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: Duxbury and JAWS
>
> It always amazes me that when someone has a problem with a
> computer that
> makes use of assistive technology, that the assistive technology is
> always the culprit. In reading this thread, I can't help but
> think that
> this is once again the problem. Someone in tech support somewhere is
> intimidated by a computer that has software that they know nothing
> about, and therefore it has to be the problem. After all, there is no
> way that the problem may be somewhere else on the computer, can there
> be!
>
> Yes, in reading through this thread, I noticed that everyone
> is quick to
> point the short comings of their experiences instead of helping solve
> the real problem. So here it goes.
>
> 1. have you tried performing your Internet Explorer tasks without any
> assistive technology active on the computer? Meaning, no JAWS and
> Duxbury running.
> 2. Have you tried the same steps with just one of JAWS or Duxbury
> running? This is a 2 step process in that you need to try it
> both ways.
>
> What are the results?
>
> Remember then when trying to determine exactly what is the
> problem, you
> need to go back to the foundation, (nothing active on the computer at
> the starting point) and then slowly introduce a new piece of
> the puzzle.
> In this approach, you also need to remember that you look at all the
> possible combinations of the pieces so that you are sure to pin point
> exactly where the problem is.
>
> I suspect that you may be surprised to find that what was initially
> believed to be the actual problem is indeed not the problem
> at all. What
> was thought to be the problem was a result of a bigger
> problem that once
> corrected, the supposed problem is also no longer present.
>
> I am saying this having used both JAWS and Duxbury products
> simultaneously since 1989 in both the DOS and Windows
> environments with
> out any problems. In fact until I was able to get it through the
> technical support way of thinking here, I to was getting similar
> diagnoses. Now, they deal with the computer as though it is
> just another
> system to fix and in doing so, they correct the real problem.
>
> Good luck, and try not to be so fast in pointing the finger at the
> unknown factors but instead try to find the real problem!
>
>
>
> Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
> The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
> Web Business Office #8300 | Fax: (403) 268-6423
> PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email:
> Stephen.Dawes@xxxxxxxxxx
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
>
> FOIPP NOTIFICATION
> This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person
> or entity
> named above and may contain information that is confidential
> or legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a
> person
> responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended
> recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or
> copying of this communication or any of the information
> contained in it
> is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
> error,
> please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete
> this
> communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us.
>
> Thank you for your attention and co-operation.
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Betsy Whitney, Dolphin Press [mailto:brailleit@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: 2003 January 07 11:43 AM
> > To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [duxuser] Re: Duxbury and JAWS
> >
> >
> > Aloha all,
> >
> > I am not implying in any way that John's message is not
> > appropriate. I also
> > have had some difficulty getting straight answers from the JFW tech
> > support. I just thought that maybe someone on the JFW users
> > list might have
> > had to use JFW in the same way and they might know
> something helpful.
> >
> > Betsy
> >
> > At 11:00 AM 1/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > >Betsy:
> > >If John is a Duxbury user his question is probably appropriate. My
> > >experience with the folks at jaws with regard to how it does
> > or does not
> > >work in Duxbury, has not been all that helpful. Only we,
> > the folks who
> > >use the two together can know what does and does not work.
> > >
> > >Ann Foxworth, Computer Braille Specialist
> > >Texas Commission for the Blind
> > >4800 N. Lamar BLVD Suite # 130
> > >Austin, TX 78756
> > >PH: (512) 377-0654
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Betsy Whitney, Dolphin Press [mailto:brailleit@xxxxxxxxx]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:14 AM
> > >To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: [duxuser] Re: Duxbury and JAWS
> > >
> > >
> > >This particular question sounds like it may be one for the
> JFW list.
> > >Betsy
> > >
> > >At 08:57 AM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >Hi
> > > >
> > > >I use Windows 2000 in high contrast mode, wigth black
> > backround and white
> > > >letters. Standard windows colors hurt my eyes and is not
> > an option for me.
> > > >
> > > >I have JAWS 4.02, should I use and older version or should
> > I install this
> > > >version. I am currently setting a new computerup. I am
> > using connect
> > > >outloud to read this email.
> > > >
> > > >John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Bruce,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the instructions on reclassifying windows in
> > JFW. I've seen
> > > >the
> > > > > dialog, but never quite knew how to use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday 1/6/03 12:05 Bruce Maguire wrote:
> > > > > >Hi Everyone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I've been doing quite a lot of testing on my system
> > since this thread
> > > > > >started, and I haven't been able to produce the
> > misreading problems
> > > > > >that some people are having. This does not mean, of
> > course, that the
> > > > > >problems aren't real, but it does suggest that there
> > could be some
> > > > > >configuration issues that cause it or make it worse.
> > As a starting
> > > > > >point, I'd be interested to know whether the problem
> > goes away or
> > > > > >becomes less noticeable if the main DBT edit window is
> > reclassed in
> > > > > >Jaws. When you reclass a window, you tell Jaws
> > explicitly what kind of
> > > > > >window it is. By default, Jaws does not have any
> > specific information
> > > > > >about the type of Windows control that the DBT edit
> window is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If you want to try this, do the following:
> > > > > >1. Make sure that DBT is open with a file onscreen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >2. Press insert-7 (that is, the 7 on the top row of
> > the keyboard). You
> > > > > >will hear some information that ends with the words
> > "DBT Window". This
> > > > > >is the name that the programmer has given to this
> > window (which is not
> > > > > >the same as the title that appears onscreen at the top
> > of the window).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >3. Press Tab to go to the list of classes to which
> > this window can be
> > > > > >assigned. The first class is "3state".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >4. Arrow down this list until you hear "multiline edit".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >5. Press Tab to go to "add new class". Press Enter twice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >You have now told Jaws that the DBT main window is a
> > multiline edit
> > > > > >Windows control, so Jaws will treat it like other
> edit windows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I don't guarantee that reclassing will fix the
> > problems that people
> > > > > >are having (it certainly doesn't fix the problem that
> > I have wherein
> > > > > >Jaws does not detect certain onscreen blank lines) but
> > it might help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >You should also make sure that your system is
> > configured to use the
> > > > > >standard Windows colour scheme, and that there is no
> wallpaper.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Cheers
> > > > > >Bruce
> > > > > >
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