Didier. Thank you so much for sharing. And I say exactly to everything you
said. Well said.
Wow you used a computer the year I was born *smiles*.
Yeah those computers are basicly unknown to me sigh. Although I remember
playing the great escape I think it was on an apple II some form.
Man I loved that game. I also loved reading the gaming code. I think it was
some kind of basic or something.
I think the game was called great escape. You were in this dungeon and had to
get out. Or try at least.
But that is the oldest computer I ever used. And those were quickly replaced by
some kind of IBM machine. I don't remember the specifics. That happened when I
was in middle school I think. So let me see. Probably late 80's or early 90's
maybe.
Jessica
Original message
Hi Jessica,
here is my take about CLI vs GUI.
A bit of backround: I am a 71 year old retired organizer,
trainer and project management consultant.
I am sighted but maintain one of the most, if not the most,
accessible Linux distributions out of the box, based on Slackware,
as I really like systems' integration.
I used a PC (then called in French "mini-ordinateur")
for the first time in 1977 if I remember well.
It was a DTC Microfile with two 8 inches floppy disk readers,
a 10M hard disk and 6K bytes of RAM and a 8080 CPU.
It has a custom OS, a 80*24 black and white CRT and indeed neither GUI nor
mouse.
Fast forward: when Windows replaced MS-DOS I observed a significant decrease of
productivity among some of my colleagues, when using a word processor.
Why? Just because when you know the keyboard shortuts it's way faster to
perform actions with a keybord than with a mouse.
While I understand that some software really need a GUI,
like e.f GIMP or Inkscape, and others with a GUI have more features than their
CLI conterparts like Firefox, I am still wondering why some blind users are
more at ease with a GUI than with a CLI for tasks that can be done with both,
like text editing or coding, as they can't use a mouse anyway.
However many coders, be they blind or sighted, do not use a mouse often,
even if the software has an optional GUI, like VIM vs GVIM or Emacs vs Xemacs,
just because using keyboard shortcuts is faster that using a mouse.
I can think of two reasons for blind folks to use a GUI when they could be more
productive using a GUI:
1. They are acquainted to a GUI because that's what they got first (think:
casual Windows or Ubuntu users).
2. Using the command line needs some learning that they do not have the time or
the will to get.
Just my 2 cents.
Didier
Le 19/03/2020 à 11:11, Jessica a écrit :
Devin. I just read your blog post.So I am coming to it from the command line view.
It seems to me your focused on the GUI. Something I can't simply stand.
the current screen readers stick around.
Excellent post btw. And I understand some of your concerns.
My concern as linux stands right now on top of your concerns is how long will
They don't know how to work in anything else.
This is why I am on the hunt for another. Or possibly making my own.
One thing that is frustrating me about linux in general is everyone is going
GUI.
And for some reason blind people think they have to do everything the sighted
I do understand this as sighted people like graphics.
Thus is why I am posting to the list and not you directly.
Before I continue. I feel this is a very valid subject.
I feel this is quite appropriate.
As Raspbian is linux and raspberry pi tends to work with linux OS's.
But one thing edbrowse has for it is the ability to only bring up the lines you
First. Let me address your email problem. As I said edbrowse is clunky.
The subject, the reference numbers, the reply to address.
Example, an email usually starts with three lines when replying to a message.
So I simply type 4 and press enter.
So I know. Line 4 is where I want to be to begin editing my response.
Once done I type period on a blank line. the dot not the word and press enter.
Since I am inserting text I simply press i and then enter. And type away.
Then I do .= to see what line I am on.Then I type 4,whatever-that-line-number is to review my message before I send
Faster than doing a flick up on my iphone to find more then reply or etc etc.
This may not seem fast to you. But to me it is extremely fast.
I know there are work arounds to get what you want.
I could go on and on. Actually reading email on the iphone is almost annoying
now.
Although quite honestly its much better to me than windows.
I used to be a master of IOS. Not anymore. Others know far more than I do.
IOS is pretty good. But its not the command line.
Now having said that I didn't use one before mac os x or whatever the version
Let me briefly say about the mac. The mac interface has always been confusing
to me.
I felt like I was wading through tons of text to just get what I wanted.
Reading email on the mac was ok to me. But I still didn't like it.
And of course emacs when I got it working that is.
The mutt email client in linux came close to what I wanted.
and properly and as well as I know it can.
I think I really need to do a course on emacspeak to really get it working
But the only thing I ever accomplished with either is just editing files.
I guess you can do tons with vim too.
Edbrowse has simple support for java script web browsing for example.
So what draws me to the command line mode.
First of all. Most things can be done in the command line mode even today.
But its faster because if I know what line the text is on that I want I simply
Sure I have to do a letter type here or there to get what I want.
If I know the line numbers in anything I want to read I simply type the first
As I gave in the example far above.
And I cut my usage time I would say 50 percent or more.
I don't have to leap through tons of text. The info I need comes right up.
And you need to know a website pretty well to accomplish this goal effectively
Of course there always exceptions to that rule.
You type it in and your there. And with edbrowse as a tool in some cases that
1. command line is direct. You don't go through menus/dialogs/etc to get what
you want.
All it takes is a willingness to read manuals/online documentation/etc to get
2. Depending on your typing speed the command line can be quite fast.
I think even apple's recent language has a command line version out there.
3. You can program in almost every programming language using the command
line.
example is already at the command line.
4. GUI's basicly allow one to get at the info that in linux or BSD for
I think its a matter of personal interest/perspective/etc.
5. When it comes right down to it.
Me for example. I am at home in the CLI. Put me in a GUI.
That having been said. I do understand some people do do better with GUI's.
No matter how hard they try. To them they do not understand how the CLI can be
But some people are the same way about CLI. They just can't grasp it.
And its not based on speed. Its based on what I believe would work best for
There are people I would recommend to the CLI and some I would recommend to
the GUI.
you need to make a program/web page/etc so you don't have to type all that out.
Again GUI programming for example brings together basicly the similar content
But it is very powerful. I should be able to delete lines I don't want in less
Back to edbrowse. I don't want to be like those sort of pushing fenrir lol.
the list that I replied too. Only the relevant content like Rich does.
But once I learn that. You won't see all that extra text in emails from me to
of those projects disappear. Why I don't know sigh. Lack of funding?
But edbrowse isn't for everyone like the CLI isn't for everyone.
As for the GUI in linux. I have never been all that impressed as you say most
"You have to be able to program to use the command line."
Also. A misconception about linux command line that I come across a lot is
Teach her a few commands. Give her a braille translated manual in liblouis.
I could set up a raspberry pi for a friend of mine if I wanted too and send
it to her.
Because she is just so used to the GUI.
But I will never get her to use it unless I gave it to her.
I personally believe blind schools should have raspberry PI's as part of their
A lot of it is just misconceptions and misunderstanding of CLI.
I don't think I was too repetative in this email.
Again. It comes down to personal preference.
They aren't given the opportunity to learn.
So they don't know they have a choice.
Lack of choice are the problems why more people aren't using linux.
Lack of knowledge. Lack of experience,
now to see if I can delete these extra lines in a clump like I am supposed to
Way too long of a post. But I hoped it might have helped you some.
and it took only 7 chars to do. Twice because I wasn't paying attention the
Sincerely,
Jessica
PS I did it. I deleted all the unnecessary lines.
attitudes expressed by the subscribers to this list do not reflect those of the
Now if only I could stop edbrowse from automatically saving my list email
rofl.
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