[duxuser] Re: Dilemma, How to Train Sighted Staff to Do Braille using DBT

From: "Kaizen ESL Program" <kaizen_esl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 06:50:36 -0700
Hi Juanita,

I understand your problem. And, it is really good that you are able to help
your student, especially since there aren't any other braille users nearby.
Moreover, I think that as a braille user, you are probably able to give your
student fairly good braille.

Also, I hope that Duxbury gets better and better at avoiding the avoidable
problems with translation from MS Word documents. But, I don't want
non-braille users to just think that Duxbury can take care of everything.

I am not talking about producing perfect braille, just good models of
braille writing.

When we are assisting students who are learning to read and write with
braille, I think it is important to give them braille without the confusions
of underlines, quotes and letter signs instead of apostrophes, double number
signs, jumbled up tables, etc. I am not a professional transcriber, and I am
not intending to become one. But now that I am teaching literacy to new
English learners who are learning to read and write with braille, I want to
be careful to be basically accurate in the braille I give them as models for
what they can write themselves, and what they should be able to understand
when reading. Those of us who are already proficient braille users might
find those things annoying, but they are real obstacles for new braille
readers. And those folks need materials that go beyond the braille code
courses. They need a lot of materials to practice reading and to model their
writing on, just like print readers.

Unfortunately, I have observed that when people who don't know how to read
braille are producing it automatically, they often produce material that
leaves the students who are trying to read it confused and makes it
difficult for them to participate in mainstream classes along with the
fully-sighted students who are reading the print material.

I think that schools at all levels need to know that it is important to hire
braille users to produce the braille for students who read braille. Any
proficient braille user can judge the readability of the braille produced
much better than people who don't use braille, both by reading the braille
material over and also by checking with the student or students for hints
about what they are finding difficult or confusing.

Maybe it would make sense for Duxbury to include a short explanatory
statement of this sort in it's introductory material in the manuals and in
the help menus. There seems to be a lot of confusion and inflated
expectations about this kind of thing among non-braille users.


Sylvie Kashdan
Instructor/Curriculum Coordinator
KAIZEN PROGRAM for New English Learners with Visual Limitations
810-A Hiawatha Place South
Seattle, WA  98144
phone:  (206) 784-5619
email:  kaizen_esl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <JHawley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: [duxuser] Re: Dilema, How to Train Sighted Staff to Do Braille
using DBT


Not all areas have Braille users that can produce Braille so perfectly.
Wyoming
for instance I am the only Braille reader within a 2 to 5 hour drive. I do
the
best I can for my one student. Juanita

Quoting Kaizen ESL Program <kaizen_esl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

> Hi George,
>
> No, I am not a partner of Betsy's way out in the Pacific, although I
> would
> really like to be in a nice warm sunny place during the winter, when
> Seattle
> Washington is chilly and rainy, similar to London. But, I am in the
> heart of
> urban Seattle, which has its interesting aspects too.
>
> In any case, I want to let you and everyone else know that I didn't mean
> my
> remarks about the problems of automatic translation into braille to be
> a
> criticism of Duxbury. As far as I am concerned, Duxbury is a very good
> tool.
> I think it could be improved, and I hope that some of the problems I
> mentioned can be dealt with. I also hope that more easy-to-read and
> understand manuals and tutorials can be prepared. But, Duxbury is quite
> good
> already. And,  the Duxbury technical support staff is the most
> responsive
> and the most helpful technical support staff of any software program I
> am
> familiar with. They respond quickly when we contact them, and they
> keep
> responding by e-mail and even by phone until they have succeeded in
> helping
> us learn what we need to know or solve whatever problems we are
> encountering. On top of that, this list is the best users' list I have
> encountered. Everyone shares their knowledge generously without too
> much
> tech talk, and everyone is pleasant and polite. I learn a little from
> it
> every week, even when I am not having problems. And it gives me courage
> to
> experiment with new things to get more refined results.
>
> My main gripe is with people who are not braille users who think that
> they
> can produce perfectly adequate braille texts  just by using the
> automatic
> features of a braille translation program. It is not possible now, and
> I
> don't think that it will ever be possible, because the best braille
> translation program will be just that, a computer program, not a
> thinking
> person. Even when people use Microsoft Word the correct way, there are
> a
> number of things that work well in print but not in braille, like
> tables, or
> are different in print and braille, like the best ways to set off text
> or
> make it easier to read ... not to mention maps and other graphics. I
> think
> that producing good readable braille is truly an art, as is producing
> good
> readable print for that matter. The software can help, but it can't make
> all
> of the decisions. I think we need more braille users involved in
> producing
> braille for other braille users. I think that mainstream educational
> and
> other programs that have embossers and Duxbury should understand that
> they
> need some braille users involved in the production of the braille in
> order
> to get decent quality. No matter how many rules and cautions we give
> them,
> new  incongruities are always popping up that are only noticed by
> braille
> users.
>
> Thanks for all your help, and thanks for reading this.
>
> Sylvie Kashdan
> Instructor/Curriculum Coordinator
> KAIZEN PROGRAM for New English Learners with Visual Limitations
> 810-A Hiawatha Place South
> Seattle, WA  98144
> phone:  (206) 784-5619
> email:  kaizen_esl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
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[duxuser] Re: Dilemma, How to Train Sighted Staff to Do Braille using DBT

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