Hi Everyone,
This conversation is timely in that I just participated in
a retreat with Germans and Jews where the theme of the
Holocaust was explored as one of the themes.
The word forgiveness, I don't
think, was spoken over the 7 days of the retreat.
Words and emotions of pain, shame, guilt, anger, sadness, grief
were spoken and deeply felt. From distance, disassociation
and numbness people became able to see each other and in
the seeing experience reconciliation and connection.
Constellations were not conducted but systemic principles
were referred to and used. No one in the retreat was an adult
during WWII and most were born years later. My take away
was the thought that the emotional charge of slavery of blacks
and the displacement or killing of Native Americans is still in
the national psychic of the USA. Until we address it directly
events like Ferguson will keep occurring. The question of
forgiveness may not be the right question or even apply
to events that our ancestors were involved in. The question is
there something in our culture that needs to be seen, felt
and discussed even though it makes us uncomfortable does
seem relevant and even urgent to me.
Thanks,
Harrison Snow
Ps the retreat was conducted by Thomas Hubl on
Mystical principles
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 4, 2015, at 7:18 AM, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Alison and All,
Thank you for raising a pertinent point and it moves me to share some
thoughts. It seems to me that constellations can take us to various emotional
stations or realisations along the way. My sense is that forgiveness, guilt,
blame, shame and the others are just stations. Viewing the landscape from
further down the line may render forgiveness, guilt, responsibility absurd as
we realise our ultimate powerlessness and choicelessness.
Forgiveness is an important station. I also feel if our journey terminates at
forgiveness the deeper layers of the self and peace has not been reached. How
can there be forgiveness if no crime has been committed. Maybe our task is to
come to ground in reality, where there is no realistic choice between gain or
loss.
Hellinger’s view:
“Forgiveness, which connects, is hidden and quiet. It is not spoken, but
practiced. It's different when someone says to another ‘I forgive you’; he is
in that moment pronouncing the other guilty. He raises himself above the
other and degrades the other. This spoken forgiveness suspends the human
relationship of equal to equal. It endangers the relationship instead of
rescuing it.”
Best wishes to all,
Robert
Very interesting Youtube video
http://youtu.be/D2j9kROrX2k
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alison Fornes maitreya71@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Community,
Am wondering about "forgiveness" and how people experience it in
Constellations.
I am aware that there is a particular understanding from Hellinger regarding
forgiveness as it relates to Orders of Love and Balancing Giving and Taking.
However, I have also heard Constellation facilitators say "we don't
forgive". Again, I'm sure there was a particular context, but I would love
some clarity from people on the list.
It comes up for me because I recently heard two ancestral healing stories
that were guided by shamanic principles within an indigenous context in
which forgiveness played a significant role. In one case, it was a white
Australian who worked with an aboriginal healer. Through visions, she saw
their European ancestors, and a line of Aboriginal women and she experienced
a tremendous grief and sorrow and asked for forgiveness. She experienced her
apology being received and a profound sense of love. In another experience,
an American Vietnam Vet who felt "haunted" by a boy he killed had an
experience of working through visions and asking forgiveness of the boy. The
boy accepted, and again, a great flow of love was experienced.
How does this view of forgiveness fit with Hellinger's insights?
It is the courageous heart that loves. It is the loving heart that heals.
alisonfornes.com
