Well what the topic looks to me is that the word 'forgivenes' has a ton of
baggage to it that bars access to the essence of it. Maybe not as much as
'love' or 'relationship' but still quite a bit.
The reconciliation that happens in constellations feels very similar as to
that which shows up when running a forgiveness process like ho'ponopono or
a non-dual process based on agreement with reality. Perhaps not as quite
pure but more self-evident due to use of representatives.
If you really wanted to, you could rebel against what Bert said and call it
'forgiveness'. Though, would it help any better than calling it acceptance?
Would perhaps developing your own vocabulary work even better?
All the best
Heiki
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:41 PM, betsy hostetler hostetler.betsy@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Harrison,
I'm so glad you shared this.It's a powerful observation. I'd like to hear
more about Hubl's approach and your learning sometime.
Best,
Betsy
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Harrison Snow <teambuilder@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
This conversation is timely in that I just participated in
a retreat with Germans and Jews where the theme of the
Holocaust was explored as one of the themes.
The word forgiveness, I don't
think, was spoken over the 7 days of the retreat.
Words and emotions of pain, shame, guilt, anger, sadness, grief
were spoken and deeply felt. From distance, disassociation
and numbness people became able to see each other and in
the seeing experience reconciliation and connection.
Constellations were not conducted but systemic principles
were referred to and used. No one in the retreat was an adult
during WWII and most were born years later. My take away
was the thought that the emotional charge of slavery of blacks
and the displacement or killing of Native Americans is still in
the national psychic of the USA. Until we address it directly
events like Ferguson will keep occurring. The question of
forgiveness may not be the right question or even apply
to events that our ancestors were involved in. The question is
there something in our culture that needs to be seen, felt
and discussed even though it makes us uncomfortable does
seem relevant and even urgent to me.
Thanks,
Harrison Snow
Ps the retreat was conducted by Thomas Hubl on
Mystical principles
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 4, 2015, at 7:18 AM, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Alison and All,
Thank you for raising a pertinent point and it moves me to share some
thoughts. It seems to me that constellations can take us to various
emotional stations or realisations along the way. My sense is that
forgiveness, guilt, blame, shame and the others are just stations. Viewing
the landscape from further down the line may render forgiveness, guilt,
responsibility absurd as we realise our ultimate powerlessness and
choicelessness.
Forgiveness is an important station. I also feel if our journey
terminates at forgiveness the deeper layers of the self and peace has not
been reached. How can there be forgiveness if no crime has been committed.
Maybe our task is to come to ground in reality, where there is no realistic
choice between gain or loss.
Hellinger's view:
"Forgiveness, which connects, is hidden and quiet. It is not spoken, but
practiced. It's different when someone says to another 'I forgive you'; he
is in that moment pronouncing the other guilty. He raises himself above the
other and degrades the other. This spoken forgiveness suspends the human
relationship of equal to equal. It endangers the relationship instead of
rescuing it."
Best wishes to all,
Robert
Very interesting Youtube video
http://youtu.be/D2j9kROrX2k
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alison Fornes maitreya71@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Community,
Am wondering about "forgiveness" and how people experience it in
Constellations.
I am aware that there is a particular understanding from Hellinger
regarding forgiveness as it relates to Orders of Love and Balancing Giving
and Taking. However, I have also heard Constellation facilitators say "we
don't forgive". Again, I'm sure there was a particular context, but I would
love some clarity from people on the list.
It comes up for me because I recently heard two ancestral healing
stories that were guided by shamanic principles within an indigenous
context in which forgiveness played a significant role. In one case, it was
a white Australian who worked with an aboriginal healer. Through visions,
she saw their European ancestors, and a line of Aboriginal women and she
experienced a tremendous grief and sorrow and asked for forgiveness. She
experienced her apology being received and a profound sense of love. In
another experience, an American Vietnam Vet who felt "haunted" by a boy he
killed had an experience of working through visions and asking forgiveness
of the boy. The boy accepted, and again, a great flow of love was
experienced.
How does this view of forgiveness fit with Hellinger's insights?
*It is the courageous heart that loves. It is the loving heart that
heals.alisonfornes.com <http://alisonfornes.com>*
--
Betsy Hostetler, Ph.D.
Hostetler Consulting
www.HostetlerConsulting.com
202 362-8672
