Hi Dan and All
It was very inspiring chain of posts about rape, thank you all contributing
to that.
I'd like to add something to Dan post about many children in family - I
agree that there were many painful cases when women couldn't say no to
their husbands (or even to any men in times of a social chaos), but please
don't conclude that 10 or more children in family are because of violation
(and it was pretty explicit said in your post:" I am presently in Ireland
where in past generations families would often have 8, 10 or more children.
Todays Irish women rarely have so many. Why? Because modern Irish women
have a say in the matter. In todays terms, a husband forcing himself on
his wife against her wishes is rape. In older times it was an entitlement,
his legal right. If you set up 4 generations of mothers behind your client,
you may very find they all felt sexually violated to some extent or the
other.").
Many children in family could be because of many reasons like high
mortality of children, in some cultures a perception of having many
children as a high social status (yes! in pre-Mao China having many
children was a sign of wealth and power in society) and a good perspective
of being under care when parents are old, lack of contraception, etc.
My great-grandmother was a traditional healer (with extensive knowledge
about how to not have many children) and happy in her marriage, although
she delivered 12 children, and only one child survived her death; the other
11 died during her life for different reasons but it would be sufficient to
mention only facts of three wars happening there (I WW, Polish-Soviet War
1918 - 20 and II WW - all with armies moving fort and back through these
lands).
Hope it would bring some balance to the topic of sexual life of married
women in past generations.
--
Hania Moser, M.Psych., Melbourne
*
Knowledge is learning something every day. Wisdom is learning of letting go
every day. Zen Proverb*
On 6 February 2012 14:45, Dan Booth Cohen, PhD <danboothcohen@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
**
Dear Patrick
I have been reading this thread and the previous one about forgiveness
with great interest. It is wonderful for so many people to offer their
insights. Each has something to take from.
Allow me to share some of my views. Your statements are in quotes
followed by my responses.
I have not dealt with rape before Every Constellation presents me with
something I have not dealt with before. Behind the clients story something
is hidden. That is a given.
Is my feeling right that the rapist becomes a member of the system?
There is no pat answer. You can put in a representative for the rapist and
see what happens.
I have a bit of fear to proceed, not wanting to cause any harm. Me too.
I consider that a healthy stance for the facilitator.
More generally, our modern definition of rape is quite different from the
traditional definition. Today, we take for granted that a woman has a right
to say No. I am presently in Ireland where in past generations families
would often have 8, 10 or more children. Todays Irish women rarely have so
many. Why? Because modern Irish women have a say in the matter. In todays
terms, a husband forcing himself on his wife against her wishes is rape. In
older times it was an entitlement, his legal right. If you set up 4
generations of mothers behind your client, you may very find they all felt
sexually violated to some extent or the other. Her present day feelings are
influenced by the experiences of these ancestors.
If I worked with such a case, my focus would not be so much on healing her
relationship with the rapist. It would be on establishing a strong
connection to the women in her maternal line, accepting the reality of her
lifes experience, and freeing her to have a healthy and mutually
respectful sexual relationship with her partner.
Thanks to all for such a rich thread,
Dan
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick McNally
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 1:40 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Re: Rape
Gary and All,
Reading Gary's beautiful explication of forgiveness below is
timely because I have a young woman (early 20's)
who has asked for my help regarding rape while she was in college.
I've not dealt with rape before, and while thinking how we might
proceed in an upcoming workshop, I feel she very much "blames"
the rapist for the devastating effects the experience has had on her
life. She's in a relationship, plans to marry and have children, and
I can only surmise that if left unresolved the rape will have bad
consequences for her children.
Is my feeling right that the rapist has become a member of her
system, or am I taking that too far? It's not murder,
but the degree of violation seems in her case to result in closeness
between her and the rapist, rejected by her, that must come to
light.
I have a bit of fear to proceed, not wanting to cause any
harm, and also recognize that confronting my fear could
open us up to a deep experience in this field, if that's
appropriate to her.
Wanting very much to help her, and appreciating any
comments from the group.
Patrick McNally
________________________________
From: "Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Gary%40CHIfield.com> "
<Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
Gary%40CHIfield.com> >
To: "ConstellationTalk@yahoogroups. com <mailto:
ConstellationTalk@yahoogroups.%20com> "
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Transcending Forgiveness through Acceptance
by Gary Stuart
Transcending Forgiveness Through Acceptance
Today, many healers, seekers and therapists have jumped on a
dysfunctional bandwagon without realizing the systemic consequences at
hand. Bert Hellinger, renowned philosopher and developer of
Constellation work and Spirit-Mind movements, has reported for many,
many years that there is a hidden symmetry and order to love.
As a facilitator of this modality, I must concur that I find these
bold statements to be very true and will gladly help anyone explore and
understand the philosophy and reasoning behind them. As always, let your
heart decide what is right for you and your well-being.
Practicing the "Art of Forgiveness" can be very damaging to the
so-called "forgiver" on many levels. This act of superiority may not
serve their best interests no matter how well-intentioned. This superior
attitude that seeks to be bigger than a perpetrator or any painful
situation actually diminishes the effectiveness of release that only
acceptance can consciously bring about. The "forgiver' actually
perpetuates the pain of victimization in an unhealthful way -- upon
themselves and, unconsciously, upon others as well.
If the desired goal is to release oneself from pain and suffering in
order to heal a deep wound and move beyond an endured atrocity, the very
idea of "forgiveness" becomes detrimental to both the Forgiver and the
Forgiven. Systemically speaking, we would call this being "too big,"
arrogant or presumptuous, as it robs the perpetrator of responsibility,
whether it was our parents or any other person who has done us perceived
"harm." It also disrespects the bigger fate and destiny of our whole
ancestral line. In doing so, the "forgiver" attempts to elevate him or
herself to the "top" of the whole hierarchical system, as if he or she
was the creator of life itself -- showing pity on these poor little
subjects under his or her command. In reality, the most recent addition
to any larger family system has no right to judge those who came before,
as they are the newer members in the larger hierarchical framework known
as a family. Sure we all have our opinions and feelings, and these are
in no way meant to be negated, but if anyone truly wants to break the
cycle of Perpetrator/Victim, "forgiveness" is NOT the way to do it. It
is then the Victim who carries both energies, thereby hurting themselves
with a heavier load of toxic baggage that enslaves them to the past.
ReSOULution
There is a way out, however, that is more simple, profound and
completely healing, leading to a restoration of love, order and harmony
for all concerned. This liberating state of "non-forgiveness" is simply
called "ACCEPTANCE." Can we be small enough and humble enough to
acknowledge our place in the larger context of a multidimensional
generation of forebears from whence we inherited our DNA? We received
the Gift of Life through them despite their suffering and turmoil. This
dualistic condition in which we are living provides wonder and horror
equally. The key is to honor and accept life itself AS IT IS. This
action of accepting imperfection (even the living dynamics of
catastrophic change) will lead us back to our inner and outer harmony,
providing us with dignity and strength. These qualities will only help
us accept the gifts and challenges equally that life continually seems
to toss in our path. It is the ACCEPTANCE of everything "as it is," from
our families to our human history, that releases us all from the chains
of the past and points us toward a better tomorrow.
Just as the arrogance of "forgiveness" weakens us, the humility of
"acceptance" empowers us. It is ours to decide which feels best and does
the most good. Always remember, we did not create the cycle of life. We
are merely participants, and our day in the Sun lasts for a very short
time.
This is our chance to enjoy, transform and better ourselves and our
children, just as those who came before did for us, whether we know it
or not. Taking our rightful place as the smallest member of the family
system allows us to evolve into something great. Honor and gratitude,
along with ACCEPTANCE, breaks the cycle of slavery to which Forgiveness
binds us. Our ACCEPTANCE of life AS IT IS, along with accepting our
parents AS THEY ARE and our larger family system AS IT WAS, relieves us
of our self-appointed role as judge and jury. To remain neutral without
judgments also leads us to accept the good things we inherited more
deeply. By letting those who wronged or hurt us own their own
Perpetrator/Victim energy, we release ourselves from the entanglement
and let the fate and responsibility rest where it belongs -- with them.
This isn't about blame or shaming others for the choices they made.
It is about honoring our own part in it and the acknowledgement that
with acceptance comes release. Life seems to be inherently good, as
everyone who shares life has always tried to follow his or her good
conscience to the best of their ability. Often such incidents occurred
in a place and time pre-dating your own creation and admission into the
family system -- and which, on the deepest of levels, was probably
agreed to all along. Accepting these simple truths will free you and
strengthen your resolve without any need to "FORGIVE." Bow Down in
thankfulness & gratitude as you ACCEPT your life as a Gift that was
Given.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
