Dear Liz,
Once again thank you for your reply. It is indeed informative to explore
how facilitators or therapist connect with their clients and it is
wonderful to witness your interest and openness to different perspectives.
I find the use of words interesting as they represent windows to our own
underlying and often hidden feelings. So to me the issue is not so much
about correcting terms or opinions but investigating our feelings below
them, driving those words. Maybe I sensed a difference between the terms
"defended" and "too defended". In any case it is great to share and
communicate with you openly on this forum.
Hope your Saturday workshop will go well.
Kind regards,
Robert
"Nobilitas obligat"
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Liz Jelinek lizjelinek@xxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Robert, Just because some thing, thought, or idea is old, and indeed
much more has been learned about the human condition, doesn’t mean that
because I use an archaic term, that indeed in Freud’s own words was a
defense mechanism, does not mean that I am stuck in an ancient philosophy,
nor does it mean that I am judging my client—nor am I wrong to suggest that
my client is defended. I could also use different terms to describe by
suggesting that he has very little frontal lobe activity (verified over ten
years by licensed professionals at the University of Michigan Medical
Center), and also that he has almost no memory of almost anything—even that
which happened last week and/or 40 years ago. He has created for himself
such a viable Personna has rarely been challenged. He holds a professional
degree because he has extremely profound short term visual memory and can
ace most exams and yet has little recall of what he wrote the following day.
In recent weeks I for some reason decided to try something. I asked him to
cover his eyes and to refrain from using the verb “see” in any of its
tenses. What happened was miraculous—his memory improved exponentially. So
whereas I did indeed use the term “defended” (perhaps erroneously), I am
never stuck with any particular modality. My only desire in my practice is
to assist trauma survivors, whether their trauma is their own or the trauma
of their ancestors—and to teach others how to heal their clients to the
best of their own abilities. I expect in all fairness to Sigmund and to my
client I could change the very tense to my client has been so defended
he’s…! Perhaps that is more palatable.
The whole reason I started this thread was to get feedback on whether or
not to allow my client to bring up his dilemma with his daughter at my
Trauma Constellations Workshop this Saturday and not to encourage a debate
about what his issues really are. But a challenge is always fine with me as
learning for me is exciting. Your challenge allowed me to look at my client
through many lenses and that is never wrong to do. So I thank you for your
feedback.
And to clarify me and who I am, I have very strong opinions about all
kinds of things—but my opinions are easily changed when I learn something
that shows me my previously held opinion needs to be corrected. For
example, in elementary school I learned that this was a linear world—but
alas I had to change that opinion when quantum physics was introduced.
Thanks for your input—it always helps everyone to have a mirror—even one
that’s potentially clouded.
Best wishes, Liz
On Jun 8, 2017, at 8:25 PM, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Liz,
Thank you for your very prompt reply and engagement. To clarify things my
only interest is awareness, I am not interested in judgements per se. Freud
is my hero yet things developed further in the past 100 years. I have no
doubt that in fact you are assisting your client with the best of
intentions and clearly he does trust you to share his feelings so deeply.
Subtleties however do fascinate me to the extent they contribute to
awareness. "Too defended" does make me feel uneasy because of its
implications. It is not so much finding fault but inviting exploration and
investigation that I find useful. I do understand that my communication can
be seen as confronting from time to time, however I do have a measure of
trust in the integrity and strength of out community here to face the
music and keep on learning.
Best wishes to you and to all,
Robert
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Dr Liz Jelinek lizjelinek@xxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well I can only guess that you are from a school that is anti-Freudian
but isn't your comment to me just ever so judgmental since you appear to be
critical of my use of the word defended.
This is a man who is highly defended if you were originally trained in
Freudian analytic psychology as I was. But if you read through this entire
thread carefully you will see that I've also suggested that he's split off
in the way described by Franz Rupert. Furthermore as someone so aptly
pointed out this is a man who's highly dissociated.
So if you find fault with my choice of words then feel free to judge me.
But this same highly defended man trusts me sufficiently due to much hard
word and building of trust to share with me the unthinkable to say nothing
of the unmentionable --that he has feelings of lust for his grown daughter.
So if I am judging him I'm so sorry. It was my believe that I'm assisting
him to heal his transgenerational wounds from not just his own early life
but the trauma he carries of the ancestors.
Liz Jelinek, PhD
On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Robert Grant erebees@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello All,
Just a subtle point I find hard to resist making. "client has been too
defended to participate" somehow makes me feel uneasy. Is there a subtle
implication of blame or guilt? People often feel unsafe for many very good
reasons, too defended feels judgemental. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Best wishes,
Robert
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Dr Liz Jelinek lizjelinek@xxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Interesting thx. This is especially relevant because I've been convinced
from the earliest meeting with this man that his father, a college
professor at a major university, was gay and that the wife/mother was his
cover. It's never come up in a constellation as my client has been too
defended to participate.
Interesting. Thx
Liz Jelinek, PhD
