[duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@xxxxxx>
- To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 15:00:35 +0100
George,
Can you code in exceptions like 'tis, the title of a bestseller in 2000?
Poor Willie Shakespeare - John Keats, Wordworth too - would fall afoul
of
apostrophe-quote distinctions, 'twould seem. And unfortunately,
although the apostrophe and quote may be represented by the same symbol,
they are different functionally, and we know this. Some speech
synthesisers will say "don apostrophe t" when faced with the dilemma!
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 1:58 AM
Subject: [duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
Hi Angel,
Sorry if this rambles on somewhat, but hopefully it will
give everyone some insight into what's going on here.
This whole subject is a very hairy area for adaptive
software manufacturers and developers.
It basically boils down to the fact that when computers
first appeared, someone made the following decisions.
1) The opening and closing double quotes would become one
single double quote character.
2) The opening and closing single quotes, and the
apostrophe (which actually was a single closing quote
anyway), would become one single quote character.
This harps back to the days when there could only be 128
characters available. Even when the "Extended" character
set of 256 characters came out, the above stayed and was
known as ASCII. Then Windows came along.
To all intents and purposes, to the sighted, it makes no
difference since the text is read in context.
Had braille followed along and done the same, we would not
be having this rather extended discussion.
However, by a series of rules, guys like Duxbury were able
to work out certain routines to automate the process of
conversion into braille. For example:-
If space precedes a double quote, then it is a braille
opening double quote.
If a letter appears on either side of a single quote, then
it is a braille apostrophe.
If specified punctuation or a space follows a single quote,
then it is (usually) a braille single closing quote.
And so on, and so on.
However, over the past few years, in particular since
Windows came along, they introduced the ability in some
programs to automatically convert these single and double
quotes into what are called "Smart Quotes" - in short, the
print equivalent of what braille still used.
BUT, many software developers were still trying to
accommodate people who had the old systems, and since the
likes of Duxbury had spent all that effort working out rules
such as the above, they thought it would be simpler (and
cheaper, no doubt) just to convert to what had become
computer single and double quotes.
Now of course, we can handle translation correctly -
provided - the correct type of quotes and apostrophes are
used, and up to date versions of software are also being
used.
However, just to confuse things, programs like Word can and
often will do this for you. That's fine, especially since
there are no special keys on the keyboard to allow you to
type in smart quotes.
But to confuse things still further, you don't always have
control over what you get from outside sources, and in many
cases, you are not even getting the correct feedback from
your screen reader.
I don't know what the ultimate solution will be, but I have
raised it as a topic which needs resolving, ideally before
10.5 is released.
George Bell.
-----Original Message-----
>From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: 03 May 2003 03:08
To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Is this why when using Open Book's edit feature and
attempting to use the apostrophe one always gets the single
quote? also, if the apostrophe were used as the single
quote, wouldn't that confuse the single quote with the
apostrophe. How would one know the difference?
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Terri Pannett" <pann1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: [duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
> Dear George,
>
> I'm glad you agree the symbol should be the same. Since
electronic
braille
> is becoming more and more popular and more blind people
are using
> braille displays, it only makes sense to make the single
quote dot 3.
> It looks weird when I have to read a word such as he's
he`s. The
> braille, in the latter, lookslike h e dot 6 lower h letter
sign s.
> That's a lot to go
under
> my fingers.
>
> Terri Amateur Radio call sign KF6CA. Army MARS call sign
AAT9PX,
California
>
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