[duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
- From: "Ian Robinson" <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:03:25 +0100
Hi George,
You suggest making changes to UK braille and plan to return to this country?
Personally I agree with you, but if that sort of comment should find its way
onto the UK braille list you could find a lynch mob at the airport armed
with sharpened white sticks and snarling dogs. <smile>
Cheers.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:59 AM
Subject: [duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
> Hi all,
>
> I'm now in Westford at Duxbury's offices, and having just got a new lap
top,
> I don't have access to my office system just yet.
>
> For another list, I did write a lengthy explanation of the history of
ASCII
> and ANSI character sets. I will try to post that when I get back to the
> U.K.
>
> All I will say in the meantime is that I'm personally sorry to say that
the
> Braille world has not yet caught up with the computerised world we are
> seeing today.
>
> For example, in days gone by, there was and opening and closing quote
which
> looked like a 66 and 99, but small, and raised above the text - referred
to
> as "superscript"
>
> TODAY, we use ONE key on our keyboards for "Double quotes", be they
opening
> or closing.
>
> Likewise, a single quote is now one key and character. And it is also
used
> for the apostrophe.
>
> How I, as a sighted person involved in Braille, wish that Braille could be
> brought up to date, certainly in terms of day to day text.
>
> I see absolutely no confusion here.
>
> An opening single quote is always preceded by a space or followed by a
> space, so it cannot really be confused with an apostrophe which ALWAYS has
a
> letter or character immediately before and immediately after it.
>
> By this reasoning, if "Smartquotes" appear, it would make more sense to
> convert them to the equivalents of the keys used in computers.
>
> Just two Braille symbols.
>
> George.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Dale Leavens
> Sent: 29 April 2003 21:38
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Terry,
>
> The symbols do look the same. I am unaware of any computer keyboard
capable
> of creating the single quote. This is really a fairly new construct as
> typewriters don't include it either. I do not recall learning the correct
> usage of the single quote at any time during my English grammar or
> literature education but this may well reflect a poor education.
>
> It is interesting that you do not get the ~ character (tilde) when you cut
> your text to DBT. This is what I always get with that symbol.
>
> Though off topic I am interested to know when one is actually supposed to
> use the single quote character. I do not recall running into it even in
> braille transcribed by RNIB or APH.
>
> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario
> dleavens@xxxxxxx
> Home of the Polar Bear Express!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terri Pannett" <pann1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "duxuser" <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:50 PM
> Subject: [duxuser] single quotes and apostrophes
>
>
> Dear List,
>
> I thought it would be best to change the subject line.
>
> The situation of the wrong symbol being used is really a pain in the neck,
> especially if you're reading text in a program.
>
> I just recently got the Windows version of the Online Bible. Every time I
> look up a passage, all the words in the passage which should have
> apostrophes contain single quotes. This means my fingers run over two
cells
> of wrong braille and WindowEyes will read the word wrong, too. There's no
> way to correct things if a program sets up the text wrong. The
"smart-tag"
> explanation explains the reason why I see single quotes where I should see
> apostrophes, but the problem isn't solved.
>
> Now, I have discovered if I copy a passage of Scripture to the Windows
> clipboard and read the text using DBT, all these nasty single quotes are
> stripped. The apostrophes are still missing, but the single quotes are
> missing, too. I think I can handle not seeing single quotes and
apostrophes
> better than seeing single quotes where there should be apostrophes.
>
> In the DOS version of the same program, the opposite is true: single
quotes
> appear as apostrophes. I went nuts with that, too, but if I've got to see
a
> wrong sign, let it be a one-cell sign, not a two-cell sign.
>
> I gather that there are two different Ansi values for both symbols, so
> perhaps DBT could be programmed so when it recognizes the Ansi value of
the
> symbol for apostrophe, it will translate it as dot 3; and when it sees the
> Ansi symbol for single quote, it will recognize it as the single quote and
> translate the symbols as the two-cell sign. Perhaps there could be an
> option so a person could "strip" out all the symbols represented by the
> "smart-tags".
>
> I have a PC keyboard which doesn't have a special key for the single
> quote--I have to use the grave accent key to make a correct braille single
> quote sign. But my BrailleNote does have a special key for single quotes.
> I'm wondering if there are PC keyboards which have the special key
included
> in them?
>
> I'm also wondering if it bothers sighted people to see the wrong symbol,
or
> does the single quote in print look like the apostrophe?
>
> Perhaps the rules in the U.S. and U.K. could be changed so both single
> quotes and apostrophes are represented in braille as dot 3.
>
> I guess some of you might think I'm nuts, but there GOT to be a solution
to
> this problem and it's not going to come from either Microsoft or Corel.
(In
> fact, DBT doesn't like the so-called "rtf" files so I have to convert such
> files to plain Ansi when I copy passages of Scripture to the clipboard.)
>
> Perhaps someone has a better idea than any I have proposed.
>
> Terri Amateur Radio call sign KF6CA. Army MARS call sign AAT9PX,
California
>
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