[duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
- From: "George Bell" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:44:21 +0100
Hi Flor,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
To be honest, right now I'm buried in a deep pile of anomalies in the
proposed revisions to the U.K. braille code, which will drive the guys
who write translation software absolutely crazy.
Just to give you an example of what we are up against:-
Section 4.1 - Apostrophe.
4.1.2. The apostrophe should be inserted in braille code to separate
lower case letters or abbreviations from a plural s which could not
otherwise be distinct.
Example: P's and Q's
It is not necessary to insert such an apostrophe after letters of
abbreviations in capitals, nor after numbers,
Examples:
Ps and Qs
Gps
1930s
49ers
And I assure you Bertie Aherne does not sit on BAUK's committee! (Big
smile)
George Bell.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flor Lynch [mailto:florlync@xxxxxx]
> Sent: 04 May 2003 15:01
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> George,
>
> Can you code in exceptions like 'tis, the title of a
> bestseller in 2000?
> Poor Willie Shakespeare - John Keats, Wordworth too - would
> fall afoul of apostrophe-quote distinctions, 'twould seem.
> And unfortunately, although the apostrophe and quote may be
> represented by the same symbol, they are different
> functionally, and we know this. Some speech synthesisers
> will say "don apostrophe t" when faced with the dilemma!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 1:58 AM
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
>
>
> Hi Angel,
>
> Sorry if this rambles on somewhat, but hopefully it will give
> everyone some insight into what's going on here.
>
> This whole subject is a very hairy area for adaptive software
> manufacturers and developers.
>
> It basically boils down to the fact that when computers first
> appeared, someone made the following decisions.
>
> 1) The opening and closing double quotes would become one
> single double quote character.
>
> 2) The opening and closing single quotes, and the apostrophe
> (which actually was a single closing quote anyway), would
> become one single quote character.
>
> This harps back to the days when there could only be 128
> characters available. Even when the "Extended" character set
> of 256 characters came out, the above stayed and was known as
> ASCII. Then Windows came along.
>
> To all intents and purposes, to the sighted, it makes no
> difference since the text is read in context.
>
> Had braille followed along and done the same, we would not be
> having this rather extended discussion.
>
> However, by a series of rules, guys like Duxbury were able to
> work out certain routines to automate the process of
> conversion into braille. For example:-
>
> If space precedes a double quote, then it is a braille
> opening double quote.
> If a letter appears on either side of a single quote, then it
> is a braille apostrophe.
> If specified punctuation or a space follows a single quote,
> then it is (usually) a braille single closing quote.
>
> And so on, and so on.
>
> However, over the past few years, in particular since Windows
> came along, they introduced the ability in some programs to
> automatically convert these single and double quotes into
> what are called "Smart Quotes" - in short, the print
> equivalent of what braille still used.
>
> BUT, many software developers were still trying to
> accommodate people who had the old systems, and since the
> likes of Duxbury had spent all that effort working out rules
> such as the above, they thought it would be simpler (and
> cheaper, no doubt) just to convert to what had become
> computer single and double quotes.
>
> Now of course, we can handle translation correctly - provided
> - the correct type of quotes and apostrophes are used, and up
> to date versions of software are also being used.
>
> However, just to confuse things, programs like Word can and
> often will do this for you. That's fine, especially since
> there are no special keys on the keyboard to allow you to
> type in smart quotes.
>
> But to confuse things still further, you don't always have
> control over what you get from outside sources, and in many
> cases, you are not even getting the correct feedback from
> your screen reader.
>
> I don't know what the ultimate solution will be, but I have
> raised it as a topic which needs resolving, ideally before
> 10.5 is released.
>
> George Bell.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxuser-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angel
> Sent: 03 May 2003 03:08
> To: duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Is this why when using Open Book's edit feature and
> attempting to use the apostrophe one always gets the single
> quote? also, if the apostrophe were used as the single quote,
> wouldn't that confuse the single quote with the apostrophe.
> How would one know the difference?
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Terri Pannett" <pann1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <duxuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:11 PM
> Subject: [duxuser] Re: single quotes and apostrophes
>
>
> > Dear George,
> >
> > I'm glad you agree the symbol should be the same. Since
> electronic
> braille
> > is becoming more and more popular and more blind people
> are using
> > braille displays, it only makes sense to make the single
> quote dot 3.
> > It looks weird when I have to read a word such as he's
> he`s. The
> > braille, in the latter, lookslike h e dot 6 lower h letter
> sign s.
> > That's a lot to go
> under
> > my fingers.
> >
> > Terri Amateur Radio call sign KF6CA. Army MARS call sign
> AAT9PX,
> California
> >
> > * * *
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> >
>
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