[mac4theblind] Re: Strange and startling dream
- From: Scott Granados <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:23:24 +0000
I wouldn’t want Jaws 16 under any circumstances. I do run it on a virtual
machine just incase I need windows for applications which I use less and less
but the crashing is still there. It’s still very much bloatware.
On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'll grant that voiceover has an advantage in that it can be used during an
> install. That's an important point in it's favor. I am not sure that I would
> consider that point decisive though because it is also true for orca and orca
> is free. You wouldn't put orca ahead of voiceover would you? A linux machine
> with orca is going to cost far less than a Mac and you can do the install
> yourself.
>
> I would also grant voiceoverpoints for being usable on any Mac w/o having to
> install anything. But both jaws and nvda offer versions that you can put on a
> thumb drive. So with voiceover, you don't even need the thumb drive. But you
> don't have to install jaws or nvda to use it on a PC. And of course, there is
> a downside to your point about being able to walk up to any Mac and use
> voiceover. Most machines aren't Macs. You can't put Mac OS on non-Apple
> hardware. I'd have to give jaws, nvda, and orca points for running on
> non-proprietary hardware.
>
> One thing I cannot grant is that jaws crashes a lot. I think that is a thing
> of the past. You wouldn't want voiceover from tiger compared to jaws 16,
> would you?
>
> On 03/23/2015 02:02 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> John, I’m with you.
>>
>> Jaws is very inefficient with memory use, unstable (crashes a lot) extremely
>> expensive and over priced and doesn’t provide anywhere the accessibility
>> required for a job like VoiceOver does. The fact is that VoiceOver gives you
>> access to the entire machine life cycle from initial operating system
>> install, configuration, and then operation and finally decommissioning.
>> Jaws can’t make that claim and really no other bolt on screen reader can.
>> You will find this important if you have a job in IT and are expected to
>> support users. You can’t install windows for a user with out sited help
>> with some exceptions and hacks but in general this is not a trivial process.
>> The other great thing is I can walk up to any Mac, any iPhone, Apple TV
>> and so forth and enable voice over with out sited help. This makes any
>> machine accessible to me not just my machine. I don’t need help installing
>> the screen reader and on and on. The advantages of a real screen reader as
>> a feature far out weigh the bold on after thought variety.
>>
>> This is regardless of specific brand or manufacturer of screen reader. The
>> bolt on install / 3rd party type just don’t hold a candle to any screen
>> reader that’s integrated tightly with the machine in question.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:25 PM, John Panarese <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, considering my initial comment was meant as a joke and not to start
>>> any debates, but everyone is entitled to their opinions. IN my opinion,
>>> from some twenty years of computer experience, JAWS is clunky and too
>>> expensive and NVDA has its own limitations compared to the paid screen
>>> readers. VoiceOver is free and is developed by Apple indent a bolt on
>>> screen reader. It all comes down to opinions, which is why this list is
>>> for technical support and such, and not an inditement of any screen reader
>>> or OS.
>>>
>>>
>>> Take Care
>>>
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8
>>> Mountain Lion
>>>
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:12 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, do we want to get into a debate over screen readers on this list? I
>>>> am not as fluent with either nvda or voiceover as I could be but they seem
>>>> pretty even to me.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, if I were to rate screen readers, I'd probably pretty much rate
>>>> them all as a tie. Jaws is the best but it is also the most expensive.
>>>> Voiceover is the second best and second most expensive. It's not free
>>>> after all. You have to buy Apple hardware and operating system. Nvda may
>>>> not be as good as jaws and voiceover but it is totally free. I have never
>>>> used Window-eyes. I use orca a lot but if there was one screen reader I'd
>>>> put in last place,it might be orca.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suppose these comments will be controversial on this list. Please feel
>>>> free to correct my misconceptions. But please try to be polite.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 03/23/2015 09:42 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>> And all are bolt on after thoughts. NVDA, JFW, WE, what ever they are
>>>>> all after thoughts compared to Voice Over which is integrated like any
>>>>> other feature in the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a free screen reader for Windows though. It's called nvda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/23/2015 08:57 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually, the Mac is not more expensive when you add in the cost of the
>>>>>>> screen reader. Remember you need to add a grand or so if you’re
>>>>>>> installing JFW on that new machine so add that to the cost. Voice Over
>>>>>>> is included for free so that cost is already covered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Lena Contreras <contreras_lena@xxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes. My Mac is approaching five years old. When I had my other windows
>>>>>>>> laptops, when they were around four years old they would start acting
>>>>>>>> strangely. They would crash for no reason the speech would stop
>>>>>>>> working and I would have to reboot or other strange things would
>>>>>>>> happen. So far, my Mac is running fine. I know Friends that have eight
>>>>>>>> or nine-year-old Max that are running well but won't support the
>>>>>>>> latest OSX. When somebody's getting a new computer, I recommend a
>>>>>>>> Macintosh. But some of my friends are Fred to make the switch because
>>>>>>>> of having to relearn things. Also the Mac is more expensive and they
>>>>>>>> want to spend less on the computer. And some of my computer geek
>>>>>>>> friends don't like the "control "that Apple has.
>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:31 AM, Scott Granados <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 Microsoft has scarred me too. It’s hard to get over that level of
>>>>>>>>> bad design and lack of security.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:47 AM, John Panarese
>>>>>>>>>> <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I keep having this nightmare that I still have to use
>>>>>>>>>> Windows to train a few clients, but it's actually reality and not
>>>>>>>>>> some bad dream. I guess, in your case, the psychological scars
>>>>>>>>>> remain ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8
>>>>>>>>>> Mountain Lion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Lena Contreras
>>>>>>>>>>> <contreras_lena@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was listening to a couple podcasts yesterday about the new Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> MacBook and Apple Watch. Last night I had a strange dream. I dreamt
>>>>>>>>>>> that I was typing away on a laptop who's screen would not stay open
>>>>>>>>>>> and I had to lay it down flat on the table like an iPad. It didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> bother me though because I was listening to the voice and did not
>>>>>>>>>>> need to see the screen and an angle.
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember I was typing and all of a sudden realize that there was
>>>>>>>>>>> no voice feedback. When I checked to see if the computer was
>>>>>>>>>>> running it had crashed. I somehow knew that it was a Windows
>>>>>>>>>>> machine and wondered why I did not hear the sound I had originally
>>>>>>>>>>> used to tell me when the computer was crashing. I remember feeling
>>>>>>>>>>> frustrated and thinking that I should get a Mac. I just thought it
>>>>>>>>>>> was very weird to have this dream when my MacBook Pro is running
>>>>>>>>>>> well and I have not touched a Windows computer in about five years.
>>>>>>>>>>> Funny how the brain works.
>>>>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone************
>>>>>>>>>>>
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