[mac4theblind] Re: Strange and startling dream
- From: Scott Granados <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:29:34 +0000
I’d rather work with a company that views accessibility as another feature than
some 3rd party who’s goal it is to suck down government funds and produces an
inferior product.
I’m not against the open source solutions, open source is attractive in
many ways but for a production environment I would absolutely rather work with
an Apple who develops voiceover just like they do all other aspects of their
software instead of some 3rd party garbage provider. Regardless of the release
schedule.
On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> But pointing out that someone could write another screen reader for Mac OS is
> not a point in favor of voiceover. The fact is that with voiceover, you are
> depending on the good will of Apple Incorporated. You arestuck with their
> release cycle and their willingness to fix bugs. That's not true for any of
> the other screen readers. Even jaws has it's own release cycle independent of
> Microsoft.
>
> On 03/23/2015 02:05 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> And I don’t think just because voiceover is built in that precludes other
>> people from entering the space. I myself wouldn’t want to compete with
>> Apple but that doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t feel differently.
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:39 PM, John Panarese <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> No, I think having one company responsible for the OS and the screen
>>> reader is a much better long term solution. NVDA is open source and open
>>> to a community of developers. As I said, it has drawbacks compared to
>>> Window-Eyes and JAWS, and those limitations cannot be compared necessarily
>>> across platforms. In reality, all screen readers conceptual set out to do
>>> the same things, but on the Mac because of the Mac's stability and
>>> security, that alone gives it plenty of advantage over Windows.
>>>
>>> As for complex keyboard combination, know your screen reader. The same
>>> things can be said for Windows too. With VO, use Numpad Commander, Keyboard
>>> commander or a third party product like, Spark, and your complexity is
>>> simplified tremendously.
>>>
>>> The bottom line is I get work done on my Mac with VoiceOver and I don't
>>> fight with the OS. In Windows, half the time is spent dealing with the OS
>>> and Trying to get work done.
>>>
>>>
>>> Take Care
>>>
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8
>>> Mountain Lion
>>>
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I forgot to mention ... I'm not sure that being integrated into the
>>>> operating system is a significant advantage. The main advantage appears
>>>> to be that it works right out of the box. There's no installation.
>>>>
>>>> But are you prepared to say that voiceover works better than nvda? If so,
>>>> how? I mean, what does voiceover do better than nvda?
>>>>
>>>> Being integrated into the operating system has it's drawbacks. For one,
>>>> voiceover has no competition. For better or worse, we're stuck with
>>>> voiceober and Apple's idea of accessibility. It does take some very
>>>> complicated key combinations to use voiceover. That's probably the result
>>>> of Apple not wanting voiceover to interfere with other operating system
>>>> functions. Some people have been critical of Apple's response time when it
>>>> comes to fixing bugs in voiceover. I've een bugs fixed the same day they
>>>> were reported in orca and nvda.
>>>>
>>>> To be clear, having voiceover come with an Apple product is a great thing.
>>>> If you're going to buy Apple products anyway, you don't have to buy a
>>>> screen reader. This is a terrific thing. But I'm not sure that being
>>>> integrated into the OS automatically makes voiceover better than other
>>>> screen readers. There is a difference between quality and value.
>>>>
>>>> On 03/23/2015 09:42 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>> And all are bolt on after thoughts. NVDA, JFW, WE, what ever they are
>>>>> all after thoughts compared to Voice Over which is integrated like any
>>>>> other feature in the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a free screen reader for Windows though. It's called nvda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/23/2015 08:57 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually, the Mac is not more expensive when you add in the cost of the
>>>>>>> screen reader. Remember you need to add a grand or so if you’re
>>>>>>> installing JFW on that new machine so add that to the cost. Voice Over
>>>>>>> is included for free so that cost is already covered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Lena Contreras <contreras_lena@xxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes. My Mac is approaching five years old. When I had my other windows
>>>>>>>> laptops, when they were around four years old they would start acting
>>>>>>>> strangely. They would crash for no reason the speech would stop
>>>>>>>> working and I would have to reboot or other strange things would
>>>>>>>> happen. So far, my Mac is running fine. I know Friends that have eight
>>>>>>>> or nine-year-old Max that are running well but won't support the
>>>>>>>> latest OSX. When somebody's getting a new computer, I recommend a
>>>>>>>> Macintosh. But some of my friends are Fred to make the switch because
>>>>>>>> of having to relearn things. Also the Mac is more expensive and they
>>>>>>>> want to spend less on the computer. And some of my computer geek
>>>>>>>> friends don't like the "control "that Apple has.
>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:31 AM, Scott Granados <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 Microsoft has scarred me too. It’s hard to get over that level of
>>>>>>>>> bad design and lack of security.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:47 AM, John Panarese
>>>>>>>>>> <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I keep having this nightmare that I still have to use
>>>>>>>>>> Windows to train a few clients, but it's actually reality and not
>>>>>>>>>> some bad dream. I guess, in your case, the psychological scars
>>>>>>>>>> remain ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8
>>>>>>>>>> Mountain Lion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Lena Contreras
>>>>>>>>>>> <contreras_lena@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was listening to a couple podcasts yesterday about the new Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> MacBook and Apple Watch. Last night I had a strange dream. I dreamt
>>>>>>>>>>> that I was typing away on a laptop who's screen would not stay open
>>>>>>>>>>> and I had to lay it down flat on the table like an iPad. It didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> bother me though because I was listening to the voice and did not
>>>>>>>>>>> need to see the screen and an angle.
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember I was typing and all of a sudden realize that there was
>>>>>>>>>>> no voice feedback. When I checked to see if the computer was
>>>>>>>>>>> running it had crashed. I somehow knew that it was a Windows
>>>>>>>>>>> machine and wondered why I did not hear the sound I had originally
>>>>>>>>>>> used to tell me when the computer was crashing. I remember feeling
>>>>>>>>>>> frustrated and thinking that I should get a Mac. I just thought it
>>>>>>>>>>> was very weird to have this dream when my MacBook Pro is running
>>>>>>>>>>> well and I have not touched a Windows computer in about five years.
>>>>>>>>>>> Funny how the brain works.
>>>>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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