And a common way to avoid feeling the experience of shame is to stay
cerebral, talk about shame but avoid the bodily feelings. I notice this
in myself, including needing to make the choice to read these
fascinating posts slowly enough to stay with my embodied experience. I
think this is also part of what Barbara describes in terms of the need
for training in constellations, which at its best really immerses us in
phenomenology and phenomenological experience. I believe such immersion
involves both lots of experience in constellations, including as a
representative, and other somatic exercises to help us become familiar
and comfortable with our own embodied/somatic experience. For me,
developing skill as a facilitator was greatly helped by the fact that
pretty much simultaneously I started learning Tai Chi, but there are
many ways to teach and learn to stay with one's embodied and energetic
experience.
Chris, thank you for the word "dampening." The word itself evokes
bodily feelings and reminds me once again of the power of the words we
choose. When we use evocative words in facilitation or other client
work, that is powerfully different from using only clinical or abstract
words such as "affect" or even "shame."
Deborah Frangquist
On 3/15/2016 4:28 AM, Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] wrote:
Absolutely!!!
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.cwalsh.com.au <http://www.cwalsh.com.au>
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:16 PM, 'Cristina Casanova'
krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Learning to stay with the affect of shame in the body, and
discharging the emotion without reacting, finding a creative
answers gives me an immense freedom to be.
*From:*ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 4:10 AM
*To:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [ConstellationTalk] Shame
Thanks for that Cristina
You have given us Tomkins description of what elicits the affect
of shame and I think it is a great starting point.
If as constellation practitioners we understood affect/ emotions
better we could do a much better job.
Personally I do have some problems with Tomkins theory. Firstly
the word shame is far too strong for most people and they
automatically equate it with a toxic form of shame where it
spirals out of control in much the same way as anxiety can when it
becomes panic. So "shame" is a difficult word. A better word for
the mild version of that feeling is dampening as in "His
excitement was dampened." We can intuitively tell that this is
accurate because when we say someone is shameless we mean they
won't let go of their excitement, they won't admit they have made
a mistake.
With the word dampening, it is now much more possible to see the
adaptive value of shame. Then it is much more possible to have a
sensible discussion. It is then possible to see there is a mild
version of shame called dampening which has a lot of qualities
that are identical to the severe form called shame or humiliation.
Both slow us down physically and cognitively. Dampening helps us
to step back and take stock and then act more skillfully. Shame
can paralyse us.
Despite this shame feels quite different to dampening just as
panic feels quite different to mild anxiety. The way to deal with
panic is to develop a friendly relationship with anxiety. The way
to deal with shame is to develop a friendly relationship with
dampening.
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425 <tel:%2B61%20%280%293%C2%A09420%201425>
www.cwalsh.com.au <http://www.cwalsh.com.au>
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:13 PM, 'Cristina Casanova'
krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Shame is an affect wired into the nervous system. It happens when
joy and interest are interrupted and it is felt by people in
different degrees.
*From:*ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 8:42 PM
*To:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [ConstellationTalk] Shame
Hi Chris,
I am not so sure about “shameless is untrustworthy”. The
colloquial use of shameless is perhaps someone who will not hold
back in the face of possible disapproval or rejection. That may
not make them unloving and therefore untrustworthy.
Buddhism not with standing, could it be that shame is an
unequivocal sign of trauma? Would the healthy, happy and wise
still need the intense fear of shame or self rejection as an
impulse control mechanism? Shall we throw out that baby, bathwater
and all?
Best wishes,
Robert
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thanks Cristina
Sylvan Tomkins and his followers including Donald Nathanson are
the only people I know who define shame in a meaningful way when
they talk about it. Without a definition much of the conversation
about shame ends up being a series of misunderstandings where
people are talking cross purposes.
Tomkins describes shame as being a flattening emotion (or affect
to be precise) that makes us lose energy, makes us clumsy and
stops us from thinking clearly. Despite that, like all of our
emotions, it has adaptive value. It dampens our excitement when it
is misdirected. There is a linguistic clue to that when we look
at the word "shameless".
Someone who is shameless is untrustworthy because they don't pay
any attention to social constraints. Shame is important for
socialisation and fitting into groups. Of course it can be misused
to beat people into shape but let's not commit the error of
throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It is interesting that Steve who is working with Asian cultures
raised this topic. Asian cultures are less individualistic and
prioritise collective wellbeing. As such they treat shaming more
delicately. They are very aware of it in the concept of "face".
Saving face is extremely important for the Chinese. Causing
someone to lose face is a very serious matter.
Unfortunately we in the West have gone from ignoring shame to
demonising it - especially in therapeutic circles. As far as I am
concerned that is still a very primitive response. Shame needs to
be integrated, to be given a place and included and to be valued
as an adaptive emotion. Only then can we have a healthy
relationship with shame - Sounds like a constellation doesn't it!
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425 <tel:%2B61%20%280%293%C2%A09420%201425>
www.cwalsh.com.au <http://www.cwalsh.com.au>
