“because the dampening shame response is inevitable elicited every day in
all of us”
Maybe that is within the normal functioning range but is there more? Is
there a difference between "healthy" shame and the self correcting oops I
did something stupid, consideration, reasonableness, dare I say wisdom? Of
course there are healthy bacteria, is there a healthy broken bone?
Hi Chris and All,
For a moment let us consider the amount of sustained, dedicated, wise and
loving parental support required to bring up a child to be well balanced,
considerate, kind and a contributing member of society. Now let us compare
this to the amount of loving and sustained therapeutic support available to
the vast numbers of damaged, abused, hurt and deprived individuals living
even in a prosperous, peaceful and lucky country like Australia.
So from a social intervention point of view it is perfectly understandable
that faced with rather limited resources, achieving even modest behavioural
modification is a huge task. Achieving visceral realignments on a larger
scale is virtually beyond reasonable expectations. This is the background
in which shame could be seen as an adaptive social control mechanism.
From the suffering individual’s point of view however, it is a malice. So
let us define our related terms. I like common dictionary and Wikipedia
based descriptions.
*Guilt* is about one’s *action*. It involves a sense of loss, regret and
responsibility as the result of one’s action. In a sense it can be viewed a
precursor to shame.
*Embarrassment* is an emotional state of discomfort with *oneself*,
experienced when having a socially unacceptable act or condition witnessed
by or revealed to others. Usually some amount of loss of honour or dignity
is involved. Embarrassment usually carries the connotation of being caused
by an act that is merely socially unacceptable, rather than morally wrong.
*Shame* is an intensely disturbing feeling about *oneself as a person*. It
arises when socially and morally unfavoured or disapproved characteristics
or actions are exposed or threatened to be exposed to others. Shame is a
form of anticipated and internalised social rejection. The roots of the
word shame are thought to derive from an older word meaning "to cover"; as
such, covering oneself, literally or figuratively, is a natural expression
of shame. According to John Bradshaw toxic shame is induced, inside
children, by all forms of child abuse. Incest and other forms of child
sexual abuse can cause particularly severe toxic shame. According Gershen
Kaufman shame is important because no other affect is more disturbing to
the self, none more central for the sense of identity. In the context of
normal development, shame is the source of low self-esteem, diminished self
image, poor self concept, and deficient body-image. Shame itself produces
self-doubt and disrupts both security and confidence. It can become an
impediment to the experience of belonging and to shared intimacy. It is the
experiential ground from which conscience and identity inevitably evolve.
In the context of pathological development, shame is central to the
emergence of alienation, loneliness, inferiority and perfectionism. It
plays a central role in many psychological disorders as well, including
depression, paranoia, addiction, and borderline conditions. Sexual
disorders and many eating disorders are largely disorders of shame.
*Humiliation* is the exposed or revealed socially unfavoured or
unacceptable characteristic or actions. According to Donald Klein it is the
feeling of being put down, made to feel less than one feels oneself to be.
Klein explains, "When it is outwardly directed, humiliated fury
unfortunately creates additional victims, often including innocent
bystanders ... . When it is inwardly directed, the resulting self-hate
renders victims incapable of meeting their own needs, let alone having
energy available to love and care for others." Humiliation is often used as
a way of asserting power and control over an other, and is a common form of
oppression and abuse. It is a form of defeat; the inability to compensate,
to cover or hide.
Apart from the somatic manifestations the common and pathological thread in
all of the above is the division of the self. The self turning against the
self, self-directed blame or contempt.
In conclusion of course I agree, the issue is not demonising but
understanding shame and not running away from it but indeed to learn how to
relate to it, how to heal it skilfully.
Best wishes to all,
Robert
==============================================
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Harrison Snow teambuilder@xxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hey Chris,
Your distinctions about healthy and toxic shame are insightful.
I tended to think of shame or the act of shaming as toxic and damaging to
one’s sense of self
Its interesting to think there could be a healthy act of shaming or
feeling ashamed.
Of course, the courts look for a remorse in a perpetrator – did the legal
“shaming” bring about
some form of internal correction even if it inflicted pain? Someone who
cant or wont feel
that pain, who has sociopathic tendencies, is still a danger to others.
On the other hand, in reconciliation work Hellinger indicates
blaming/shaming stops
people from grieving. And, it’s the mutual grieving that leads to the
healing.
So the distinction between healthy and toxic still in my mind needs more
exploration.
Shame seems to be a two-edge sword that cuts both ways no matter how you
swing it.
The toxic and healthy parts don’t come in nice, neat, separate
compartments.
Clearly, it is part of the human experience and its something we must
explore within us
as part of our own development.
Cheers,
Harrison
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
*From: *Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 4:29 PM
*To: *ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *Re: [ConstellationTalk] Shame
An afterthought
Healthy shame leads to humility
BUT
If you are conditioned to spiral into toxic shame then it will instead
become humiliation
And then cascade into a number of negative consequences like:
Rage - attacking the other
Depression - attacking yourself
Addiction - avoiding yourself and your painful feelings
Social withdrawal - avoiding the other
So you can either spend you life demonising shame and running away from
yourself or you can learn how to relate to the emotion skilfully. This
approach is already accepted in mainstream for dealing with anxiety and
works very well.
If as constellation practitioners we use this approach we will be much
better at recognising both healthy and toxic shame in constellations. We
would also be much more able to partake in meaningful supervision without
it being wrecked by defensiveness.
On Wednesday, 16 March 2016, Chris Walsh <chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Hania
You are displaying the problem with definitions I alluded to in my first
post and you have identified an important principle.
Healthy shame leads to humility.
If you really pay attention phenomenologically you can sense that the
difference between dampening/healthy shame and toxic shame is one of degree
just like anxiety and panic.
This is not trivial. This distinction makes it more possible to sit with
the shame with an attitude of open curiosity rather than aversion. That is
the beginning of real resolution as opposed to years of being battered by
secondary emotions and unhelpful internal stories.
I personally have helped a number of patients recover from severe toxic
shame caused in part by the oppressive power based shaming you describe.
The understanding of healthy shame has been an essential part of that
process. That is because the dampening shame response is inevitable
elicited every day in all of us and we need to be able to experience that
and benefit from its adaptive function without spiralling into toxic shame.
If you really want a good understanding of the biological processes of
shame with lots of vignettes and with a good research base I suggest Pride
and Shame by Donald Nathanson
On Wednesday, 16 March 2016, Hania Gorski haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Chris and All,
I would like to bring the point, that there are different concepts of
shame, and different definitions.
Chris, I respectfully disagree with you - I see that it's a kind of your
definition, or interpretation of shame, as looking at "adaptive" and
"healthy" function of shame.
I see the topic you're describing - as a misconstruction of mixing shame
with humbleness.
The ritual of bowing has nothing in common with shame and it's actually
opposite - it's gentle, humble respect and acknowledgement of being small
(yes, shrinking from being too big, a very healthy process). That is
description of being humble, not shamed.
Humbleness is healthy and adaptive, and facilitates deep growth.
Shame - in my opinion, and my therapeutic/facilitator experience - is
never a good motivator as it's impossible to bring any real goodness by
imposing negativity, like cleaning a floor with a dirty cloth.
It always brings a sense of isolation, alienation, separation, not
connection.
Shame stands next to fear and guilt and rejection, and it was used along
with all these negative "tools" as an effective social control/power weapon
(sometimes deadly) in the history of human kind, and it is still used. It
was/is also widely used in raising children to make them obedient and
disconnected from themselves in order to serve adult society purposes.
Shame is also inseparable from family "dirty" secrets, sexual abuse
trauma, and domestic violence.
Shame is a toxic tool of domination in relationships, separating people
from each other, and from Love, therefore it's against Orders of Love.
That's my definition.
No surprise that we deal with shame in constellation work; from the
beginning, in a process of offering clients constellation, we see facets of
shame in family system - visible even in our clients' resistance to work in
a group setting.
Groups/constellation workshops are potential theatres of shame and
retraumatisation, so it is so extremely important for the facilitator to be
aware of these dynamics, and to not step into/re-create the shame space.
The Knowing Field is also a potential mining field.
Thanks Robert for posting the link to Vivien Broughton article about
ethics in constellation facilitation - what she listed as good qualities of
a facilitator, emphasises importance of navigating through the
constellation process in such way that doesn't deepen shame and doesn't
retraumatise clients (and representatives).
I'd like to respond also to the beginning of this thread when someone
asked about experiences with shame in constellations.
I had a very interesting and learning experience as a representative; I
was representing a father of the client; this father was a son of a man who
was caught up as a paedophile.
While I was standing in my representative role, I've experienced few
feelings and body sensations/movements. One of the leading feelings was an
enormous shame, felt as unforgivable guilt/shame and alienation; my body
was heavy under these feelings, like a lifeless heavy bag, and my eyes were
glued to the floor.
Unfortunately, the facilitator didn't ask for my report as a
representative for a long time (even if the main enquiry from the client
was about her relationship with her father whom I was representing).
The facilitator was stating aloud that the father is looking at dead, and
bringing representative for dead. Later on, when it was not leading
anywhere, I was asked for the report, and I stated my feelings of shame
(with few others). When the shame was brought and acknowledged, a process
of healing begun, and gradually I could see my daughter. That was bringing
a further healing to the daughter.
I'd like to respond also to someone mentioning prof. Brene Brown, a
researcher of vulnerability and shame. I love her concepts and
presentations, she brings a lot of new air to understanding of social
dynamics of shame and vulnerability in society and culture. She clearly
distinguishes shame from humbleness, and her research proves that shame
damages and alienates people. Her antidote to shame - in short - is courage
and authenticity, which implies humbleness and acceptance of our
imperfections.
Her findings are great in a broad social context as Brene Brown focuses
mainly on social/cultural/gender context of shame (she is a professor of
social work at Texas University).
She calls herself a shame researcher, but unfortunately she doesn't go to
shame issues in a trauma/family system context.
That area of shame still awaits to be explored fully, as some of B.B.
proposals of resolving shame are not really helpful for traumatised clients
who are deeply buried in shame.
I think that shame is so important and rich topic, and there are so
interesting cultural specifics regarding reasons and expressions of shame.
We need to be aware of these cross-cultural subtleties.
I hope to hear more from our forum members.
Best regards
[image: photo]
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/haniagorski>
Hania Gorski, Melbourne
Psychologist, Relationship Coach, Systemic Therapist
Mobile: +61 400 225 357 <+61%20400%20225%20357>
Email: haniagorski@xxxxxxxxx
Website: www.wholerelationships.com www.familysystemic.com
www.integritysources.com
*The world, I’ve come to think, is like the surface of a frozen lake. We
walk along, we slip, we try to keep our balance and not to fall. One day,
there’s a crack, and so we learn that underneath us — is an unimaginable
depth. *James Joyce
On 15 March 2016 at 22:16, 'Cristina Casanova' krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Learning to stay with the affect of shame in the body, and discharging the
emotion without reacting, finding a creative answers gives me an immense
freedom to be.
*From:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 4:10 AM
*To:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: [ConstellationTalk] Shame
Thanks for that Cristina
You have given us Tomkins description of what elicits the affect of shame
and I think it is a great starting point.
If as constellation practitioners we understood affect/ emotions better we
could do a much better job.
Personally I do have some problems with Tomkins theory. Firstly the word
shame is far too strong for most people and they automatically equate it
with a toxic form of shame where it spirals out of control in much the same
way as anxiety can when it becomes panic. So "shame" is a difficult word. A
better word for the mild version of that feeling is dampening as in "His
excitement was dampened." We can intuitively tell that this is accurate
because when we say someone is shameless we mean they won't let go of their
excitement, they won't admit they have made a mistake.
With the word dampening, it is now much more possible to see the adaptive
value of shame. Then it is much more possible to have a sensible
discussion. It is then possible to see there is a mild version of shame
called dampening which has a lot of qualities that are identical to the
severe form called shame or humiliation. Both slow us down physically and
cognitively. Dampening helps us to step back and take stock and then act
more skillfully. Shame can paralyse us.
Despite this shame feels quite different to dampening just as panic feels
quite different to mild anxiety. The way to deal with panic is to develop a
friendly relationship with anxiety. The way to deal with shame is to
develop a friendly relationship with dampening.
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.cwalsh.com.au
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:13 PM, 'Cristina Casanova'
krsna-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [ConstellationTalk] <
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Shame is an affect wired into the nervous system. It happens when joy and
interest are interrupted and it is felt by people in different degrees.
*From:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 8:42 PM
*To:* ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: [ConstellationTalk] Shame
Hi Chris,
I am not so sure about “shameless is untrustworthy”. The colloquial use of
shameless is perhaps someone who will not hold back in the face of possible
disapproval or rejection. That may not make them unloving and therefore
untrustworthy.
Buddhism not with standing, could it be that shame is an unequivocal sign
of trauma? Would the healthy, happy and wise still need the intense fear of
shame or self rejection as an impulse control mechanism? Shall we throw
out that baby, bathwater and all?
Best wishes,
Robert
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Chris Walsh chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Cristina
Sylvan Tomkins and his followers including Donald Nathanson are the only
people I know who define shame in a meaningful way when they talk about it.
Without a definition much of the conversation about shame ends up being a
series of misunderstandings where people are talking cross purposes.
Tomkins describes shame as being a flattening emotion (or affect to be
precise) that makes us lose energy, makes us clumsy and stops us from
thinking clearly. Despite that, like all of our emotions, it has adaptive
value. It dampens our excitement when it is misdirected. There is a
linguistic clue to that when we look at the word "shameless".
Someone who is shameless is untrustworthy because they don't pay any
attention to social constraints. Shame is important for socialisation and
fitting into groups. Of course it can be misused to beat people into shape
but let's not commit the error of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It is interesting that Steve who is working with Asian cultures raised
this topic. Asian cultures are less individualistic and prioritise
collective wellbeing. As such they treat shaming more delicately. They are
very aware of it in the concept of "face". Saving face is extremely
important for the Chinese. Causing someone to lose face is a very serious
matter.
Unfortunately we in the West have gone from ignoring shame to demonising
it - especially in therapeutic circles. As far as I am concerned that is
still a very primitive response. Shame needs to be integrated, to be given
a place and included and to be valued as an adaptive emotion. Only then
can we have a healthy relationship with shame - Sounds like a constellation
doesn't it!
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.cwalsh.com.au
--
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.cwalsh.com.au
--
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9420 1425
www.cwalsh.com.au
