[mac4theblind] Re: Strange and startling dream
- From: Scott Granados <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:48:26 +0000
There’s no way that windows has any position in the server market. Azure (the
cloud offer from Microsoft) is a bad product that’s not being nearly as widely
adopted as say AWS or others. (digital ocean and so forth)
My experience has been almost exclusively Linux Variants especially heavy on
RedHat and CentOS and before that Solaris and AIX had the majority of the
business. Windows has never held anything even close to a majority in server
applications. There’s a lot of Microsoft in the small business space like your
ma and pop pizza shop or local State Farm rep but these are being replaced by
outsourced solutions and most of these are Unix based simulating Microsoft
services. Even the largest Exchange mail providers no longer use exchange but
use things like Zimbra and other packages that simulate the features with out
the goofy Microsoft licensing costs.
On Mar 23, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I already explained the reason I think the vast majority of IT professionals
> use Windows. The vast majority of computers in the world run Windows. The
> vast majority of servers run either Windows or linux. The percentage of
> computers in the world that run Mac OS is still very tiny.
>
> You keep claiming my facts are wrong but that is meaningless. It's a bit
> insulting for you to tell me I'm out of touch in one message and in another
> refuse to back up your opinions with any substantiation what so ever. If you
> are going to keep telling me I'm being stupid, you could at least provide
> some validation for your opinion.
> The reason it is unlikely that a 3rd party will develop a screen reader for
> Mac Os is that it would be difficult to sell a screen reader for an operating
> system that comes with a free screen reader. I'd have thought that would be
> obvious.
>
> On 03/23/2015 03:42 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>> No, it is true for all screen readers. At least, with Apple, it is Apple
>> supporting the screen reader. Development cycle or not, it gets updated.
>> With Windows, remember that they are third party developers bolting on their
>> screen reader to Microsoft Windows. They are at the mercy of Microsoft as
>> far as changes to the OS, and we've seen many times how that has gone.
>>
>> Honestly, based on your assumptions and comments, I think you need to
>> educate yourself quite bit on how this technology is going. You are making
>> statemements that I haven't read in years. Again, assuming most IT
>> professionals these days use only Windows is old news. Things are changing
>> and for good reason.
>>
>> Also, what makes you think another company won't develop a screen reader
>> for the Mac some day?
>>
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain
>> Lion
>>
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> But pointing out that someone could write another screen reader for Mac OS
>>> is not a point in favor of voiceover. The fact is that with voiceover, you
>>> are depending on the good will of Apple Incorporated. You arestuck with
>>> their release cycle and their willingness to fix bugs. That's not true for
>>> any of the other screen readers. Even jaws has it's own release cycle
>>> independent of Microsoft.
>>>
>>> On 03/23/2015 02:05 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>> And I don’t think just because voiceover is built in that precludes other
>>>> people from entering the space. I myself wouldn’t want to compete with
>>>> Apple but that doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t feel differently.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:39 PM, John Panarese <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, I think having one company responsible for the OS and the screen
>>>>> reader is a much better long term solution. NVDA is open source and open
>>>>> to a community of developers. As I said, it has drawbacks compared to
>>>>> Window-Eyes and JAWS, and those limitations cannot be compared
>>>>> necessarily across platforms. In reality, all screen readers conceptual
>>>>> set out to do the same things, but on the Mac because of the Mac's
>>>>> stability and security, that alone gives it plenty of advantage over
>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for complex keyboard combination, know your screen reader. The same
>>>>> things can be said for Windows too. With VO, use Numpad Commander,
>>>>> Keyboard commander or a third party product like, Spark, and your
>>>>> complexity is simplified tremendously.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bottom line is I get work done on my Mac with VoiceOver and I don't
>>>>> fight with the OS. In Windows, half the time is spent dealing with the OS
>>>>> and Trying to get work done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>
>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>
>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8
>>>>> Mountain Lion
>>>>>
>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>
>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, I forgot to mention ... I'm not sure that being integrated into the
>>>>>> operating system is a significant advantage. The main advantage appears
>>>>>> to be that it works right out of the box. There's no installation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But are you prepared to say that voiceover works better than nvda? If
>>>>>> so, how? I mean, what does voiceover do better than nvda?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being integrated into the operating system has it's drawbacks. For one,
>>>>>> voiceover has no competition. For better or worse, we're stuck with
>>>>>> voiceober and Apple's idea of accessibility. It does take some very
>>>>>> complicated key combinations to use voiceover. That's probably the
>>>>>> result of Apple not wanting voiceover to interfere with other operating
>>>>>> system functions. Some people have been critical of Apple's response
>>>>>> time when it comes to fixing bugs in voiceover. I've een bugs fixed the
>>>>>> same day they were reported in orca and nvda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be clear, having voiceover come with an Apple product is a great
>>>>>> thing. If you're going to buy Apple products anyway, you don't have to
>>>>>> buy a screen reader. This is a terrific thing. But I'm not sure that
>>>>>> being integrated into the OS automatically makes voiceover better than
>>>>>> other screen readers. There is a difference between quality and value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/23/2015 09:42 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>>>> And all are bolt on after thoughts. NVDA, JFW, WE, what ever they are
>>>>>>> all after thoughts compared to Voice Over which is integrated like any
>>>>>>> other feature in the OS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Todor Fassl <fassl.tod@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a free screen reader for Windows though. It's called nvda.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/23/2015 08:57 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Actually, the Mac is not more expensive when you add in the cost of
>>>>>>>>> the screen reader. Remember you need to add a grand or so if you’re
>>>>>>>>> installing JFW on that new machine so add that to the cost. Voice
>>>>>>>>> Over is included for free so that cost is already covered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Lena Contreras <contreras_lena@xxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes. My Mac is approaching five years old. When I had my other
>>>>>>>>>> windows laptops, when they were around four years old they would
>>>>>>>>>> start acting strangely. They would crash for no reason the speech
>>>>>>>>>> would stop working and I would have to reboot or other strange
>>>>>>>>>> things would happen. So far, my Mac is running fine. I know Friends
>>>>>>>>>> that have eight or nine-year-old Max that are running well but won't
>>>>>>>>>> support the latest OSX. When somebody's getting a new computer, I
>>>>>>>>>> recommend a Macintosh. But some of my friends are Fred to make the
>>>>>>>>>> switch because of having to relearn things. Also the Mac is more
>>>>>>>>>> expensive and they want to spend less on the computer. And some of
>>>>>>>>>> my computer geek friends don't like the "control "that Apple has.
>>>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:31 AM, Scott Granados
>>>>>>>>>>> <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 Microsoft has scarred me too. It’s hard to get over that level
>>>>>>>>>>> of bad design and lack of security.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:47 AM, John Panarese
>>>>>>>>>>>> <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I keep having this nightmare that I still have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> use Windows to train a few clients, but it's actually reality and
>>>>>>>>>>>> not some bad dream. I guess, in your case, the psychological scars
>>>>>>>>>>>> remain ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10.8 Mountain Lion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Lena Contreras
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <contreras_lena@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was listening to a couple podcasts yesterday about the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple MacBook and Apple Watch. Last night I had a strange dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I dreamt that I was typing away on a laptop who's screen would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not stay open and I had to lay it down flat on the table like an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPad. It didn't bother me though because I was listening to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice and did not need to see the screen and an angle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember I was typing and all of a sudden realize that there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was no voice feedback. When I checked to see if the computer was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> running it had crashed. I somehow knew that it was a Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine and wondered why I did not hear the sound I had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally used to tell me when the computer was crashing. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember feeling frustrated and thinking that I should get a Mac.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just thought it was very weird to have this dream when my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MacBook Pro is running well and I have not touched a Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer in about five years. Funny how the brain works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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